Does a corporation need healthcare? Can a corporation be jailed? Does a corporation have a finite life in which they can pursue happiness? Does a corporation have offspring it's trying to raise? Does a corporation have hopes and dreams? Does a corporation wish to visit a park or visit with their neighbors? Are you for real?

▲

Gormo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Replace "corporation" in each of your questions above with "organizational model employed by people as a mechanism for coordinating complex activities", and the answers should all become clear.

Much of the discourse on this topic involves muddled, contradictory thinking that simultaneously argues "corporations aren't people" and "corporations are exercising autonomous agency as singular entities distinct from the people who constitute them". These two premises cannot both be true.

▲

wat10000 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why can't both of those be true? I don't see any contradiction between them. The law doesn't seem to have any issue taking them both as true either. Corporations are considered their own entity under the law, but they do not enjoy all the rights of people. The whole reason this story is making headlines instead of being a humdrum "dog bites man" event is because corporations typically do not have the right to vote, even though people mostly do.

▲

esikich 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Those people can already vote. I have no idea what your point is.

▲

Henchman21 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It _seems true_ when the people represented by the organizational model never face consequences for their actions, using the corporation as a liability shield.

So while corporations aren't people, they do seem to be exercising autonomous agency as singular entities distinct from the people who constitute them. Because by definition that is what a limited liability corporation provides? It seems that this is the crux of a lot of angst?

▲

Gormo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> It _seems true_ when the people represented by the organizational model never face consequences for their actions, using the corporation as a liability shield.

Corporations don't function as a liability shield in the sense you're talking about. The idea that people can individually engage in criminal or tortious conduct without any direct accountability is a myth -- limited liability protects investors from financial liabilities that exceed their investment, but it in no way shields corporate managers from liability for their own criminal conduct in managing the firm.

> So while corporations aren't people, they do seem to be exercising autonomous agency as singular entities distinct from the people who constitute them. Because by definition that is what a limited liability corporation provides?

No, it does not do that in any way, shape or form. Limited liability means that creditors can't foreclose on your house to cover the debts of a firm that you own $100 of stock in. It does not shield anyone actually managing the company from civil or criminal liability for their actions.

> It seems that this is the crux of a lot of angst?

That angst is attributable to believing in misinformation pushed advanced by factions who benefit from increasing conflict and controversy in our society.

	▲	Henchman21 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Excellent reply thank you! So why then does it seem that corporations do in fact shield executives from criminal charges? Is this just collusion among the well-off? Money buys verdicts? I’m happy to take your word on limited liability as IANAL (obviously) but it sure as hell seems like executives ought to go to jail a LOT more than they do. Corporations do terrible things in the world and are seemingly never held to account. Finally, looking to my own education, can you suggest a place to read up on this topic so I am not flatly wrong in the future? Thx in advance :)

▲

EnergyAmy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The contradiction clears up when you realize that corporations are legal fiction without rights, merely privileges granted to them.

You can act in your capacity as a person and exercise your rights, taking on personal liability.

You can act via a fictive legal proxy, which has no rights and shield yourself from some liability.

Trying to blur those two is madness.

▲

rayiner 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, but the people who own and control the corporation all do.

	▲	EnergyAmy 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		They can vote and act in their capacity as people. They can fuck off otherwise.