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BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork(xcancel.com)
122 points by Tomte 4 hours ago | 30 comments
My_Name 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine.

I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc.

I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is mostly 3D printed, I'd start with that one as a base and adapt it for my needs. I considered Bambu until they started down the road that ends with me not having control of the product I own. Any company on that path does not get my money.

dsign an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots of random parts with no way to know what they are for. Of course, there's no telling if the next step of boiling the frog is to require users to attach metadata to their models before the printer prints them...

microtonal 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think you are underestimating how many companies use 3D printing for prototyping. It's not just hobbyists printing miniatures.

To give an example, I had RSI and use a high-end, expensive ergonomic keyboard. The company that makes these keyboards does not go immediately from design idea to an expensive mold. There are many design iterations and prototypes and they are all 3D prints.

The same is probably true for air humidifiers, drones, or whatever other object you can come up with.

If you have access to everyone's STLs, you basically have access to all the design prototypes and something close to the final product.

It's like industrial espionage, except companies are willingly giving you the data, because they do not want to spend the extra money for a farm of Prusa printers.

It's a brilliant play of the Chinese government. Exploiting that we prefer short-term savings over long-term strategy.

This pattern repeats over and over again, from 3D printers to people buying Chinese fitness watches because they are cheaper than EU and US counterparts.

Renaud 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government.

The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take.

The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not really a basic cultural notion. Even more so, not caring about ownership, and not enforcing the legalities of it, is partly what allowed innovation at such rapid pace in China.

After all, the Chinese government mandated for decades that all foreign companies setting up shop in China had to have a 51% majority local partner, and technology transfer was mandatory. Basically a government-mandated mandatory transfer of knowledge, to be freely used by the local recipients of it.

So the intricacies of Open Source licenses are a bit lost. Many understand the benefit of it, but not the expectations put on them for this benefit.

In the case of Bambulabs, I suspect that, in their mind, they just want to control their platform. They show their misunderstanding of Open Source rights and expectations and I’m pretty sure they are baffled by the reaction.

It not necessarily malevolent or malicious, though it looks that way from a Western perspective, but more of a cultural impedance mismatch.

They are not idiots, but not everyone at that company will actually understand the duties that come with these licenses.

This reminds me of the fights Naomi Wu used to have a few years ago, going to other 3D printer manufacturers in ShenZhen who were using GPL software but would not release their modifications for their equipment.

She had a hard time making them understand and see the duties and benefits that came with using these types of licenses.

parker-3461 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was curious about this as well. Hypothetically, if they are really trying to extract insight, they could be:

- Industrial trend pattern: even if only people accidentally leave the Cloud Feature on initially, there could be some that slip through. It could be product categories way before the public knows about it.

- Defence and aerospace: obviously less likely, but if people use Strava in odd locations, and people share classified defence info on War Thunder, then it wouldn’t surprise me if someone slipped something through.

It wouldn’t surprise me if such automated analysis is setup somewhere in China.

gonzalohm 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There are companies that run lots of machines in parallel and use them to print their products. They could steal these designs and use them to create copycats

zipy124 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's become rather clear that Open source licenses are vulnerable, since defending them costs large amount of money, and proving violations can be hard since by definition the products that break them are closed-source.

misswaterfairy an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Software Freedom Conservancy is at least fighting back.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2026/may/18/bambu-studio-3d-p...

AshamedCaptain 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I am annoyed that they just claim that "reverse engineering" will take care of this, instead of really trying to fight back legally.

This is a social problem, and reverse engineering can only help up to a point.

amazingamazing 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Open source for medium and small projects is dead if enforcement is a consideration. Trivial to reimplement in same or other language and give yourself plausible deniability.

comandillos 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cannot agree more with Josef on how dangerous this is for our intellectual property; Of course there laws and mechanisms in China for the government to obtain any information retained by their companies under any possible justification, but the US does so, and thanks to the Cloud Act they can simply decide to do the same with any of the big players sitting in their territory (even to servers located out of their territory).

So, taking into account >80% of European companies rely either on Amazon, Microsoft or Google to store all their most private and business sensitive data, is this any different from all the data we are possibly leaking already? Same with AI, same with the phones and payment systems we use on a daily basis...

Sometimes I just have the impression that this has nothing to do with protecting our intellectual property but rather with finding an enemy and focus on that while pretending everything else is fine... and a blogpost from the owner of Prusa Research talking about their main competitor is a good demonstration of that.

awestroke an hour ago | parent [-]

Your cloud act is making American cloud vendors lose customers in droves

karel-3d 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can you just sue them over it? Sure they are a Chinese company but they also operate in Europe and US?

thriododkdje an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would like some precedents, to see if AGPL is actually enforceable. Many licenses put several demands on user, but are some parts are void and illegal. Like OEM licenses for MS Windows, that forbit reselling.

License can not order someone to publish something. They may not have a rights to publish code, or it was created as part of employment...

ahtihn 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> License can not order someone to publish something.

No it can't, you are right.

By default, you don't have any right to use any given software. The license outlines the conditions under which you have are permitted to use it. If you don't comply with the conditions, you aren't permitted to use it.

The license isn't ordering you to do anything, you can simply not use the software!

sterlind 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

accepting AGPL means you're vowing to publish derivative work. if you aren't legally allowed to publish that work, you violated its terms. the Court may not order you to publish to cure the violation, if you lack the rights to do so, but they can still order you to pay damages.

if I sign a contract saying I'll produce a million Iron Man action figures, but I don't have the IP for Iron Man, I can't just shrug my shoulders and say "well, you can't make me." the Court would make me pay damages.

skeledrew 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

A license is as enforceable as there are lawyers to advocate for it in court, judges to make rulings for it, and a system of enforcement to make any rulings a reality. Doesn't really matter what's in the license itself.

isoprophlex 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Its a chinese company. They don't give a single flying fuck. Nor do almost all consumers as long as the product is good. And no western government is gonna care because we let ourselves become so dependent on cheap chinese manufacturing.

bluGill an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Western courts have a different perspective since they pretty much universally don't have the larger issue of the Chinese manufacturing as a consideration.

Which is to day you can go to any western court and have import stopped at the border.

gcmrtc 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Its a company. They don't give a single flying fuck.

amazingamazing 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Kind of love the irony of this being an xcancel link

permalac 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

What is the irony here?

amazingamazing 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

Xcancel is against the x terms of service. But no one really cares because it is not perceived as an issue, similar to this situation

pocksuppet 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Terms of service are not legally binding, copyright licenses are legally binding.

amazingamazing 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

There is no precedent for AGPL enforcement against Chinese companies, so no, not really.

Feel free to post a docket if you disagree though. Also there are plenty of cases for ToS violations look up Facebook vs BrandTotal, or more recently Epic vs Apple.

In the same way no one here cares about archive.org paywall circumvention, non techie end users don't care about open source violations (why should they). Look at the very link we are discussing for proof.

SlinkyOnStairs 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This post is now gone. Click the down button and stop reading.

It seems we have arrived at the "HN does not read license texts" hour again.

wongarsu 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Because the AGPL (and even general GPL) are copyright licenses, they simply do not have anything to say about software that is distributed separately

Of course they can. The nature of any software license boils down to "this work is protected by copyright. If you comply to A, B and C, you can do D, E and F that otherwise would have violated copyright law". A, B and C can be whatever you want. It can be "don't use this in nuclear power plants" (MS likes that condition), it can be "if you make less than $100k anually" (Unity etc), or it can be "if you share the source code" (copyleft). You can make that clause as wide or unrelated as you want

The real issue with GPL and AGPL is how badly defined the boundary is unless you have a single compiled C program

misnome 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Which reduces the problem down to "is Bambu doing that"? Given the installer is 300 megabytes, it probably contains both the application and the plugin, but you go launch an international lawsuit over "probably".

No, the plugin is downloaded at runtime on first launch

The amount of outright obfuscation with this issue is absurd. Either many of the big names that have jumped on the bandwagon are credulous idiots or deliberately misrepresenting what has happened for their own gain.

doginasuit 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I think copyleft was a mistake. I don't understand the value of it beyond increasing the reach of open source, it has no direct benefit to the source. It imposes a higher cost than if you just charged for the license. Not to mention the cost to the publisher of enforcing it.

Open source is about freedom, that should include the freedom of consumers to make whatever choice fits their target. If we want to increase its reach, we should emphasize the value of that freedom. People have a strong instinct for reciprocity and it is strongest when it is entirely their choice.

pocksuppet 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Copyleft is about freedom of consumers to make whatever choice fits their target, unlike permissive licensing, which is about freedom of corporations to take away freedom of consumers.