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maxloh 2 hours ago

I understand their decision. How could the maintainers understand their codebase if most of it was not directly written by them?

It is impossible to review the entire rewritten codebase. There are just too many lines of code, 1 million lines to be exact [1].

[1]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412

sroussey 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t think changing from zig to rust suddenly means that don’t know what a certain file contains or how it works or how it relates to other files.

It’s all the same just different syntax. Which, by the way, is why it looks ugly to rust developers. The devs wanted the code to look familiar to them.

I do think they should have called this 2.0 though. Would not feel such a rush (1.3.14 has a few regressions, and no one really cares because there are lots of small rust fires now).

Overall, the bigger issue is that bun chases shiny objects. But never finishes. Just look at test stuff. Most of vistest, but not all. Most of jest, but not all. Most of pnpm, but not all. Now we have image stuff, so most of sharp, but not all. dev server? Most of vite, but you guessed it… not all. Long running process… mostly like node but with memory leaks (and a motivation for rust I’m sure).

When I saw them posting about the Image routines my heart sank. Another shiny object. Coincided with test bugs so I moved to vitest completely.

egorfine 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Image routines my heart sank. Another shiny object

With quite a peculiar set of supported formats different between operating systems.

nkmnz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So it was possible to write ~2 million lines of (mostly) zig, but it's not possible to review ~1 million lines of rust, even though the same test suite included in those 2 million lines of zig can still be used? I'm not convinced the rewrite is a good idea and will work out, but I'm equally unconvinced by your argument.

827a 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Its possible to do that over a period of a few years. Sadly, the Rust rewrite happened in (checks notes) 8 days.

cyanydeez 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

So this question was never answered: If Zig had so may problems that they felt compelled to rewrite it all in Rust, does that suggest the great Mythos was unable to fix the Zig version?

Isn't this suppose to be the most advanced model ever and you're telling me they can't just schedule a cron job that detects and repairs the zig version?

Really? Did they just completely admit that the great AI future can't secure a significant project repository?

doug_durham an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

trollbridge 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Right. I now have responsibility for rather large codebases where the person who generated it with agentic tools (I'd say it's better than pure 'vibe coding') barely understands how it works. This is okay for unimportant parts of the codebase, but completely unacceptable for a critical piece of infrastructure where it really needs to be well thought out.

eddythompson80 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty normal in many corporate cultures especially ones with high turnover. You get assigned to a team that's "maintaining" a 10 year old code base with few million LoC. The most senior person on the team has been there for a year or 2 and it's just business as usual. You don't know what those 1M+ lines are doing. No one does. It's not a passion of anyone to work on it. You just get a bunch of requirements handed to you, you blackbox everything but the surface areas you need to touch. It's why there are 14 implementations of a background service 8 dependencies that do the same thing, 6 overlapping frameworks, a complete mismatch in style, approaches, etc. It doesn't really matter.

hexage1814 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>how could the maintainers understand their codebase if most of it was not directly written by them

I think you are not understanding the new paradigm. The idea that 'humans are going to understand the codebase' is dead. Codebases will be maintained and reviewed by AI. You might think this is bad, but in many aspects of human history, we have traded understanding for convenience—that's the reason why we buy food at the supermarket instead of hunting for our meal. This has happened in every area of humanity, and it seems foolish to think that code generation would be immune.

Again, you might think this is a bad thing, but it’s simply how humanity has been functioning. 'Oh, but who is going to maintain this?' AI. 'Oh, but what if one day that's not possible?' Well, what if one day the electricity goes out due to solar flame or whatever? You get it?

tomjakubowski 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> in many aspects of human history, we have traded understanding for convenience—that's the reason why we buy food at the supermarket instead of hunting for our meal.

You could always take a job on a cattle ranch or an abattoir or meat-packing plant, or watch a How It's Made documentary, and get some understanding of how the sausage gets made and put on the supermarket shelf for your convenience. This was also true as we built abstractions in computer technology: you could start off learning a high level language, then learn a lower level one, then study or build an operating system kernel, a compiler, an assembler, machine code, and then crack some books on microprocessor architecture and signal processing. You could always "go deeper" if you wanted to. And there is a payoff: understanding at a deeper level helps you get things done better at the higher levels (e.g.: understanding the concept of memory hierarchy helps you lay out data structures to make code faster).

There is no such step for slop-coded codebases: you become entirely dependent on a context-limited LLM to have a shot at even approximating some understanding. Perhaps more productively, you treat the slop as a black box and build something understandable around it.

This is also why the notion that developers in the future will be committing LLM prompts in English to repositories instead of code written in a programming language is so foolish. I am saying this as someone who uses LLMs quite a lot to help with generating and understanding code.

OptionX 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What are you talking about? How do you think food get to the supermarket? People put it there.

The entire chain from farm to table is managed and operated by humans.

Every automatization effort ever always had human oversight.

Its not the same thing as entrusting the entire codebase to overachieving markov-chain who has no concept of correctness over anything of sounding ok.

Honestly, saying the humans understanding codebase is a dead concept is the most techbro-ish I heard today.

grebc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

THIS time it’s different.

overgard 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

doug_durham an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm certain that the maintainers of Bun have excellent understanding of their codebase. What makes you think that they don't? They wrote the code in the first place. They know the architecture. They know what pieces do what functions.

somebehemoth 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

They did not write the rust code. AI wrote that code. Your response is side stepping the primary issue people have with the rewrite: no human has read and understood all the code AI wrote.

thatxliner 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it's funny how the readme still says "written in Zig"

prmoustache 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

If Claude isn't even able to correct the readme, I don't know how one can have hope it produces decent results.