| ▲ | Breakthroughs for batteries could soon make them better(economist.com) |
| 39 points by pingou 3 hours ago | 35 comments |
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| ▲ | kaon_2 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| "Distinguishing hype from reality is not easy. But recent developments mean that ambitious promises could be fulfilled. " Just like AI is changing the world before our eyes, this may be just such a technology. Maybe I will come to resent them when they are omnipresent, but a person-transporting drone (EVTOL) flying on a solid state battery would be transformative in connecting people, and I cannot wait to see it happen. The EU has committed 500bn in inter-european railway investment by 2050. Maybe it will be entirely disrupted? Who knows. |
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| ▲ | scottLobster 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | We have these things called helicopters, they are already made small enough for single occupants and have been for decades. Making them electric and automated doesn't make them less of a helicopter with all of the issues of existing helicopters. For instance, I will never have any desire to risk the air traffic clusterfuck of hundreds of EVTOLs with different computers from different brands with different levels of maintenance trying to land/take-off in a Costco parking lot to grab a rotisserie chicken on their way home from work. It isn't a technology problem. EVTOL only makes sense where helicopters currently make sense. | | |
| ▲ | simmerup 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Electric helicopters come with the advantage that they’re much simpler to maintain surely. | | |
| ▲ | scottLobster 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Go watch some of these and tell me you trust these people to maintain an EVTOL vehicle, however simple. https://www.youtube.com/@mechanicalnightmare/videos We already have fatal car crashes from people who neglect maintenance and don't get their car inspected. Now imagine instead of a 2D plane to cause a wreck, on a road where people are generally alert and paying attention for wrecks, they can fall out of the sky onto kids playing in yards, onto busy roads out of the sun, or just onto each other during the final approach/take-off. Nope, air travel is only safe because we strictly regulate pilots and maintenance. |
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| ▲ | lavela 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe I am missing something, but I haven't seen a solution to the noise problem of air traffic (especially anything rotor based). Might not be an issue for long distance connection in sparsely populated countries like the United States, but I don't see it replacing trains in Europe until this is solved. | |
| ▲ | Zigurd 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the way Boring Co. disrupted subways? | |
| ▲ | DanielHB 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have been thinking this for quite a while now, electric planes will kill a lot of rail routes. However I am still skeptical about the EVTOL form factor for mass scale transportation, at least on the short or medium term. I think we are going to see a lot of fragmentation in modes of transport where we have jets going from international airports for long range, small electric planes in small airports for that 50-300km distance low-frequency destinations. And rail only for high-frequency destinations. In fact I imagine that electric vs jet planes math will get so crazy that it might kill some international hubs that are too far inland, companies will want people off jets into electric propeller planes as fast as possible. | | |
| ▲ | lacewing 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > I have been thinking this for quite a while now, electric planes will kill a lot of rail routes Why? If you have an existing rail network, trains are bound to be cheaper than planes and can get to more places (including convenient centrally-located stations in most major metro areas). Plus, air travel is generally miserable unless you have a private / chartered plane. Crowds, long lines, security screenings, opaque and abusive pricing models, etc. This is not something we couldn't fix, but over the past 30 years, it's gotten a lot worse, not better; electric planes don't automatically change that. In contrast, rail travel in Europe is almost universally pleasant and hassle-free. | |
| ▲ | dmbche 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Where have you heard of electric planes being so much more energy efficient than jets? | |
| ▲ | kvdveer 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If flying ever becomes efficient energy-wise, this may happen. However, right now, flying is very energy inefficient, so anything that doesn't need to be flown, is transported overland to save costs. A change of fuel won't change it, unless the underlying energy usage changes fundamentally. Better batteries do not impact energy usage, only the means of energy delivery. | |
| ▲ | Descon 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Rail will always be more efficient since you don't have to carry the load. I think places that never built passenger rail (Alberta has been toying with Edmonton to Calgary since they've existed) this will wipe out the need for them. |
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| ▲ | sublinear 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Rail is energy efficient and extremely reliable. You're not going to win on either of those metrics. |
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| ▲ | jillesvangurp 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Batteries are quite good already. You can wait for the next big thing, or get something that works and scales right now. Battery production is now measured in multiple twh of capacity per year. That goes into vehicles of all types with any number and size of wheels, grid storage solutions, and domestic storage. People use them all over the world now. Including some developing economies. There are many quality attributes you can look with batteries at: cost per kwh, weight per kwh, volume per kwh, charge/discharge rates, longevity in charge cycles, operating temperatures, robustness, chance of flammability (near zero with some cell types), etc. Better is a meaningless qualification unless you express it in those. And what is best and what is optimal are two things. There's a reason LFP is dominating rather than NMC. It's good enough and a lot cheaper even though it has slightly less energy. For the same reason sodium ion is being put into some cars. It doesn't have the energy density. But it's cheap, operates in arctic and desert temperatures, and they last pretty long. When it comes to new battery chemistries, it takes time to go from a lab breakthrough to mass production. Sodium ion is now being mass produced. A few years ago there was only low volume production. And before that, the technology was stuck in various stages of the R&D pipeline at various companies. From a lab prototype in a university to an actual proof of concept might take several years. And from there to production many years longer. With solid state, there are about at least half a dozen technology companies that are moving from test samples to low volume production in the next years. Mostly the technology is proven and validated at this point. But it might still take until at least the end of the decade before we see any mass production. Building big factories costs billions and is super risky. Companies don't do that unless they are certain something will work. Solid state will have to compete on quality and price. High density solid state in cheap cars is not likely to be a thing for cost reasons. But they might be popular with drone and sports car manufacturers. The press is unfortunately a bit sensationalist on this front and it creates unrealistic expectations. |
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| ▲ | acidhousemcnab an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| https://archive.is/ReAtU You'll need to get your hands on Greenland first. |
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| ▲ | tiffanyh 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| With both battery tech and quantum, you have to separate out "commercial availability" vs "laboratory availability". |
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| ▲ | therealmacsteel 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I doubt we have even scratched the surface of battery technology though. |
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| ▲ | LoganDark an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Everyone's been talking about breakthroughs for batteries for years. Until I see one on the shelf, it doesn't matter. Go make them better, and come back once they actually are! I've even seen ceramic batteries being tested on YouTube as long as 7 YEARS ago [0], but I still can't actually buy one. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJXRyWQgOY4 |
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| ▲ | ac29 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Everyone's been talking about breakthroughs for batteries for years. Lithium iron phosphate has quietly gotten price competitive with lead acid and its wildly better tech. Not particularly sexy but its having a real world impact (LFP is commonly used for solar storage among many other uses). | |
| ▲ | konschubert an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think CATL bringing sodium-ion to industrial scale should count as "on the shelf". https://www.pv-magazine.com/2026/04/28/catl-secures-worlds-l... | | |
| ▲ | LoganDark an hour ago | parent [-] | | Hmm, that is industrial-scale which I wouldn't say is something I can really buy but that is cool nonetheless! | | |
| ▲ | triceratops an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > something I can really buy What are you going to use them for? Consumer batteries are already good enough IMO. Cheaper batteries in large quantities are what we need more of. | |
| ▲ | konschubert an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | My point is that this is clearly out of the lab. |
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| ▲ | s0a an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | been tracking this sector for years and we did hit a major inflection point in the last 12 months | | |
| ▲ | gruez an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | What actually changed? | | |
| ▲ | DannyBee 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | So random consumer who just bought a ton of batteries here:
i don't follow the hype closely, nor am i a crazy battery dude, but i have tracked over the years the cost of doing battery backup vs generator, etc. It's definitely the case for me (and friends of mine), that between reasonably priced batteries, inverters,etc, doing good battery backup for the house (and peak demand shaving/etc, i use a lot of power and take advantage of time of use tariffs) is now less than half the price of a generator. Most of my friends spent 35-45k on a generator. I will have spent <20k on batteries + inverters. It would actually be even less, but i have 600amps of split phase for the house, and 150 amps of 480v 3 phase for the shop, so i need two different kinds of inverters. It is all literally being installed right now. I would actually go completely off grid, but i live in a historic area and have slate roofs so can't really do solar easily ;) As for what changed - 12 months ago this setup would have been almost double the price, just because of the availability (or lack thereof) of the right kinds of products necessary to achieve it. I know because i priced it :) Availability here isn't in terms of stock, but literally in terms of "variety and choice of product". For example - the availability of UL certified low cost 48v batteries in various sizes has skyrocketed in the past year. Lots of states require UL certification, assuming you are doing this in a permitted/etc way)
Additionally, a lot more outdoor batteries are now available (my setup is outdoors but mostly protected). The availability of choices in higher kVA but still residential grade inverters has also skyrocketed, etc. As for why the price was doubled - before i would have needed 2x the number of inverters, and you really couldn't get a good 480v inverter except with high volt batteries that are wildly less available and wildly more expensive.
On top of that, the batteries you could use that were UL certified and outdoor rated or could easily be done in outdoor enclosures was much lower than it is now. | | |
| ▲ | intrepideng 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I would be interested in hearing more about the system you installed, if you don't mind sharing. I'll probably be taking the plunge in a year or two. |
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| ▲ | LoganDark an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I would love to see one I can actually buy! Let me know once there's one I can actually buy. I've been having this issue for years of everyone being so excited about things that I can't actually buy. I don't care! I would love to be excited too, but it's just tiring now. I wish there were some kind of aggregator for exciting achievements that you can actually buy. I'm tired of all this premature hype! |
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| ▲ | gosub100 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | They will be delivered as soon as fusion power plants come online to charge them. I agree with you, I'm sick of hearing about the "developments" in batteries, nano materials, and fusion. Need an add blocker for these. |
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| ▲ | fnord77 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| solid state batteries - perpetually only 5 years away |
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| ▲ | comrade1234 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Mercedes has cars on the road now with solid state batteries. They're not mass-producing the batteries yet so they're only in test vehicles. Performance has been great. | | |
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| ▲ | epistasis 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There are continual improvements in batteries all the time making them better, cheaper, and they are being deployed with exponential growth. Silly headline. Just say solid state, yet again, the thing that's always been around the corner while lithium ion and sodium just ship ship ship on a massive scale. If solid state works out, great, but it would no longer be a big breakthrough. Batteries are here and a major grid component today. |
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| ▲ | strictnein 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The first quantum laptop will run on solid state batteries that were charged with electricity from a fusion reactor. | | |
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