| ▲ | philipallstar 6 hours ago |
| It's the other way around. You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly if they are bad. You have very, very coarse-grained control with the government every few years. |
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| ▲ | applfanboysbgon 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly if they are bad. There are exactly two companies in the global credit card market and they operate in lockstep, literally coming to agreements to shut down legal businesses together. Visa and MasterCard have absolutely no right to determine who is and isn't allowed to receive payment. Governments have that right, but that doesn't mean they should use it -- if they're abusing that right, people can vote them out. The effectiveness of people voting out harmful politicians is another matter, but that's kind of on the people being bad at voting, not the idea of government altogether, and at any rate you have no vote whatsoever in what MC/Visa do (unless you vote for government to regulate them!). |
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| ▲ | deaux 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > You have choice with a company, This is wrong for a large share of the companies that most people deal with on a daily basis. And that share has been steadily increasing every single year. |
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| ▲ | bildung 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Ok, I choose to not use Visa/Mastercard in the US, and I want to subscribe to some saas. What do I do now? Or do you mean "choice" as in "you can always choose not the breathe or eat"? |
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| ▲ | CobaltFire 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | To be pedantic American Express and Discover exist. But I agree with your meaning. We are beholden to some third party no matter how we move in the current situation. | | |
| ▲ | ravenstine 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've found it funny how many people still believe that most places in the US don't take Discover. I almost exclusively use my Discover card and the number of times I've had it declined is a tiny fraction of a percent. Most people also don't seem to realize that Discover is also a bank, so you can use it for both credit and checking/savings. So yeah, you likely don't have to be forced to use the duopoly of Visa and Mastercard. The only time I've recently used one of my Visa cards was when I visited Europe where I found much more places don't accept Discover, although there were still many that did. Hopefully the acquisition of Discover by Capital One results in lower processing fees so the network broadens globally and makes the notion that Discover isn't viable a thing of the past. | |
| ▲ | throwaway2037 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why is this downvoted? While slightly sarcastic, you make a good point. Is it possible to get a UnionPay (China) or JCB (Japan) credit card issued by a European bank? That would be very interesting. I assume in the last 10 years, there is way more acceptance of UnionPay in Europe. UnionPay is widely accepted all over East and South East Asia these days because there are so many Chinese tourists. | |
| ▲ | Forgeties79 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Amex is regularly rejected by businesses and cannot be your only credit card, so really you maybe have Discover. I also wouldn’t say either of those is particularly better than Visa/Mastercard. They all engage in the same practices more or less | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The only places I've found that refuse AMEX are very small mom and pop operations. And of those, many don't accept cards of any type: cash only. | | |
| ▲ | Balooga 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Costco? [Edit] -- And I've frequented several independent coffee shops that are cashless. | | |
| ▲ | volkl48 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Costco doesn't even accept Mastercard (credit cards), so they're kind of a unique case here where they intentionally choose to only accept one particular type of credit cards. | | |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fair enough, it's probably not as common as I think and is more of a reputation. |
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| ▲ | array_key_first 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Theres a natural tension here, because in order for this to be true you need a diverse market with many competitors. But that is bad usually, because it's extremely inefficient, so it gets optimized out. The monopolies we see are indeed an optimization - the natural climax of a developing market. Consider payments: you do not want to carry around 100 different cards and trinkets just to pay for things in your daily life, right? And for merchants, they do not want to make deals with 100 different companies to accept payments, right? So what's the end result? We see the monopolies in the US economy because our economy is very efficient. It could be even more efficient - consider, for example, how much time and money could be saved if only one phone OS existed. But then of course that's bad for you, the consumer, because then these huge corporations rule your life and can essentially do whatever they want. |
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| ▲ | NalNezumi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In the context of mastercard and visa being a duopoly and the recent debacle such as certain games being removed from steam because they threatened to not allow stream to use the card payment system, it's a pretty bad take. Not that central bank won't be able to do the same, but it would have to follow laws set by the government rather than law+whatever the card companies decide to. |
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| ▲ | ambicapter 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Agree to disagree. Lock-in is a thing that companies design for. |
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| ▲ | somewhatgoated 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Like others said that choice is not really given in this case. Also with the government option it wouldn’t mean that you can’t still use other methods - for example in brasil credit card or cash work just fine, PIX is just one (very convenient) option. |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do corner stores (small informal convenience stores) in Brasil usually accept PIX? I assume they all cash-only. Also: What is PIX uptake/penetration like in the countryside? China is shocking how fast that countryside wet/farmer's markets started accepting AliPay. Literally, you can buy a kilo of pumpkin (namguo) using nothing but your mobile phone with AliPay, and the old lady running the stand (in a wet market) probably has a 6th grade education. (No hate on that!) | | |
| ▲ | dormento an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | (Brazilian here). > Do corner stores (small informal convenience stores) in Brasil usually accept PIX? I assume they all cash-only. Pretty much every single one I've always been to. From the smallest one-person street corner popup shop to the biggest shopping mall boutique and outlets, virtually everyone accepts PIX payments. Its just better - its one of those "you gotta use it to understand" things. Anecdotally: I've even gave some cash to homeless people on occasion using PIX. This may seem weird, but in Brazil, you must have a bank account to be able to subscribe to any sort of government benefits, and since its free, pretty much everyone has an account and therefore can receive PIX payments. Its also safer, since you're not carrying cash with you, and even if you're somehow forced to transfer, there are ways to monitor and reverse transactions (so called MED). https://www.bcb.gov.br/estabilidadefinanceira/pix-seguranca Of course, there's been a few incidents over the years where some concerned citizens would not accept PIX payments because "the government will know what you're spending on" (in contrast to, say, credit card operators, where apparently the "right people" would know what you're spending on...). There are some criticisms of the current system, which is fair, but most that I have heard are ideological in nature or some sort of foreign defaultism. | |
| ▲ | snovv_crash 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In Africa they've had this since ~2005 with the Mpesa system. It basically transfers cellphone credits as payment. In certain regions everyone with a dumb phone was hooked up and you could do anything from buy a coconut from a guy on the side of the road to pay your taxi driver to pay at the supermarket. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway2037 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Wow, this is a great reply! "In Africa" -> Can you share a few countries? Google tells me that East Africa is the biggest users: Kenya, Tanzania, etc. (No hate on the use of "In Africa here"... as Google tells me it is used in at least 10 different African countries.) |
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| ▲ | carlos_rpn 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Replying here to throwaway2037 because I can't reply directly to him, but yes, even most informal businesses accept PIX, including some random guy selling candy or bottled water at a stop signal. The only exception I have found to consistently refuse PIX are some parking lots, and they refuse credit cards as well, accepting only cash, probably to hide their earnings. |
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| ▲ | vrganj 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've moved countries five times in my life. I still haven't been able to fully get rid of my dependency on Big Tech or the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. |
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| ▲ | delfinom 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You only have a potential choice until a company buys out all its competitors and surpresses the rest. |
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| ▲ | surgical_fire 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly Oh yeah? Please enlihhten me, how exactly can I switch providers from the Visa/Mastercard duopoly? |
