| ▲ | dragontamer 5 hours ago |
| You speak as if Elon Musk didn't buy tons of AI chips for full self driving (Dojo) and COMPLETELY flub it. It's the same as always. Musk himself is an awful business man. He relies upon buying the success of others and taking over. Outside of that, he's kind of awful. Initiatives started by Musk himself almost inevitably fail. |
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| ▲ | fastball 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Tesla wasn't "successful" before he "took it over" (read: invested most of their seed capital and ran the actual day-to-day operations). SpaceX, founded entirely by him alone, is also the most valuable space technology company on earth, so... |
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| ▲ | dragontamer 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well sure. But that's not AI chips or FSD. The subject of this whole topic. Within this realm of AI, Musk has constantly invested and failed. Dojo, xAI, Grok. His newest idea is leveraging SpaceX money to put data centers in Space. Good luck with that. | | |
| ▲ | fastball 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your previous comment was clearly not constraining itself to the realm of AI chips / FSD. Regardless: How do you measure Dojo, xAI, and Grok being failures? Dojo is training models for FSD, which is in operation today. The chips in Tesla cars are also taped in-house / vertically integrated, a lot of which is presumably shared investment with the chips needed for the Dojo training side specifically. Separating xAI from Grok (in a list like this) is kinda weird, but seems that Grok is actually a very capable LLM, even if it is not best-in-practice. Even if not beating out the top 3 labs, it certainly seems to be in the top 5 by most metrics. The xAI Colossus data centers are real AI training/inference infrastructure that were stood up in record time, and they are now selling capacity to other LLM providers. Is that a failure? | | |
| ▲ | dragontamer 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-shuts-down-dojo-ai-2219... Dojo is shutdown dude. Literally doing nothing but rotting. After spending $Billions on a custom chip, Tesla is now just buying NVidia chips and wasting their Dojo efforts entirely Team dismantled. Operations closed. Game over. --------- A similar event is playing out with xAI. Operations are transferring over to SpaceX. Out of money, out of time. They're going to try to grab more money (possibly illegally) across Musks enterprises but there's some severe legal questions on the legality of these moves. It's already sketchy as all hell that xAI bought Tesla's GPU fleet. Now SpaceX is buying it up under doubious circumstances. Whatever is going on with xAI / Twitter is now clear. It's not possible for it to stand on its own two feet and needs external investors to continue to survive. | | |
| ▲ | fastball 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ok, but Dojo clearly has a spiritual successor in the form of: whatever Tesla is currently using to train FSD models? Like... Tesla kills teams all the time. Sounds like many were absorbed into the rest of the org. Seems like a bit of a nothing-burger without the follow-up that Tesla is shutting down FSD ambitions in general (or similar). | | |
| ▲ | dragontamer 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yeah. It's called NVidia GPUs. IE: Tesla spent over a $Billion building a team and custom building Dojo chips only to fire the entire team, throw away their chips and buy NVidia. |
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| ▲ | pizzafeelsright 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 10 years returns
S&P 500 (index of all those better than Musk): 261%
Tesla: 2700% Disclaimer: My portfolio is 65% Tesla. |
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| ▲ | Calavar 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius? Tesla has been a meme stock for about five years now, maybe more. Its valuation correlates with Musk's abilities as a showman and media figure, not a businessman. | | |
| ▲ | pizzafeelsright 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I was responding to the idea Musk is not a good businessman. I think the evidence suggests otherwise. Market Cap:
Tesla (TSLA): ~$1.4T
GameStop (GME): ~$9.7B If anything, GME is a meme. I also gave my bias so as a way to ignore me. | |
| ▲ | filoleg 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius? GME did not beat the S&P500 over the past 10 years, and it is just the evidence of you needing to verify your claims before making them. Over the past 5 years[0]: S&P500 up by 77%, GME down by 50%. Over the past 10 years: S&P500 up by 260%, GME up by 207%. GME performance in the past 10 years doesn't indicate that Ryan Cohen is a business genius. It indicates that he runs a company that has been underperforming the market for at least the past decade. 0. https://www.google.com/finance/beta/quote/.INX:INDEXSP?windo... | | |
| ▲ | Calavar 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I did look up numbers before I made that claim: From Yahoo Finance GME Jan 1, 2016: $7.09, $5.49 adjusted (accounting for dividend disbursements) GME Jan 1, 2026: $20.09 266% or 365% return depending on how you count dividends. 365% for GME vs. 306% for S&P 500 over the same period (also using adjusted for dividend numbers). | | |
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| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'd argue that Tesla's stock price is more about con artist acumen than business acumen. TSLA currently has a P/E of ~375. That's extremely overvalued. There's no possible objective reason for TSLA to have such an extreme ratio. Even if you think Robotaxi is going to be a massive success, it would have to completely devour Lyft, Uber, and traditional taxi services all combined to even get half way to justifying that P/E, and considering the already major distrust in Tesla's FSD, I just don't see that happening. The math doesn't math. People buy TSLA because they want to be part of Elon's cult, not because of anything to do with Tesla as a company. | | |
| ▲ | bigbuppo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I remember the days when a P/E in the high single digits was a giant red flag. |
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| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | dragontamer 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So you are personally invested in this and openly admit to it. And yet expect me to take a discussion with you seriously? Normally the way this works, is you excuse yourself away from a debate for being too financially involved in the situation, knowing that your financial bias is too overwhelming. | | |
| ▲ | pizzafeelsright 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I do not expect you to take me seriously. | | |
| ▲ | dragontamer 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nor I you. But started this by pointing out Elon Musks weakness in the field of AI, and the best anyone seems to have come up so far is that Elon Musk has more money so it doesn't matter. It's not quite the flex that the Musk fanboys think it is. The simplest solution would have been to ya know, point at an Elon Musk AI win. And Dojo, xAI, Grok are all relative failures in these respects. |
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| ▲ | saulapremium 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I absolute abhor the man but I think this is silly. No doubt that he has had luck and help, but he is still a good businessman. He's certainly an asshole (almost certainly dark triad territory), but I think that can be a benefit when creating a business. |
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