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baq 2 hours ago

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence.

We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

Gigachad an hour ago | parent | next [-]

We are interviewing for a software dev role and we made the first round in person to prevent cheating. The gap between people who learned pre ai vs post is immense. I had a dev with supposedly 3 years experience and a degree in software who wouldn't have been able to write fizzbuzz without AI.

IanCal 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Can’t say you’re wrong but the last anecdote describes many I’ve had to review for jobs long before LLMs. Fizzbuzz is a classic thing that shockingly many devs genuinely cannot do, even at home.

sigmoid10 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, I've interviewed people like this 15 years ago. Degrees and experience mean nothing in this field. The best predictor I found was personal passion projects. Let them get as nerdy as possible, then you will see pretty quickly where their skills are at and what their limits are. And you will immediately filter out people who just studied CS because they heard you can make good money.

baxtr 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if you’re filtering for the right things.

We usually hire for problem solving capabilities and not so much for technical know-how.

That’s at least how I read your comment.

Retr0id an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> I had a dev with supposedly 3 years experience and a degree in software who wouldn't have been able to write fizzbuzz without AI.

If you remove the "without AI" and the end, I've been hearing similar anecdotes about fizzbuzz for years (isn't the whole point of fizzbuzz to filter out those candidates?)

Gigachad 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

While this is true, it seems undeniable that if you use AI to do everything for you, you will never learn the skills. I'm seeing a massive amount of developers submitting stuff for review and admitting they have no idea how it works and they just generated it.

daymanstep 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wonderful teachers that give unreliable information with total confidence?

entropyneur an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I had human teachers who did that in middle/high school. Took me many years to pick out all the hallucinated bits of "knowledge". I don't think the current models are any less reliable that what we currently have on average.

dguest an hour ago | parent [-]

I'll always remember my middle school science teaching telling us that nuclear fusion violates conservation of mass because the 2 protons in a pair of hydrogen nuclei combine to make helium with 4 nucleons. It's not true, but that's not the point.

But he was a great teacher anyway. He was engaging and kept the kids in line and learning. I eventually learned the truth, and most of my classmates forgot about it. Teaching, like flying a plane or driving a train, might become more about keeping watch over a small group of people and ensuring that things don't go off the rails, and that's fine.

3form 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

This one feels less sinister than some other things at least to me, personally. You can reasonably doubt that the conservation of mass is violated and find out the truth based on that. But understanding more complex biology or historical context for some things? Granted, many of these things seem to be low stakes, but I'm sure there are some there are not (sex ed comes to mind).

zem 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

to be fair, fusion does violate conservation of mass, just not the way the teacher explained it. the loss of mass is where the energy comes from.

Bawoosette an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be fair, that was much of my actual experience with human professors in university.

renticulous 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Veritasium proved that in a difficult challenge.

A Physics Prof Bet Me $10,000 I'm Wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCsgoLc_fzI

IshKebab an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah one of my teachers was able to identify which high school I had come from due to something I had been mistaught.

Levitz an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Off the top of my head: DOMS being little crystals in muscles, tongue having separate areas for each type of taste, food pyramid, blue blood in the veins, the appendix being useless, body temperature doesn't change disregarding whether it's exposed to cold or to heat, and a whole lot of stuff related to politics and history I'd rather just omit (I don't live in the US).

All things I learned in school which were wrong information.

Not to mention, the current state of education is far worse. I don't think most realize how low the bar is.

autoexec an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They'll also encourage and praise you even when you're heading down the wrong path until you think you've uncovered the secret of the universe or proven that established science was wrong this whole time when really you've just been bullshitting with an engagement bot.

k__ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anti-intellectualism is at it again, hu?

victorbjorklund an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Like humans.

CoastalCoder 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think we should go a little deeper on this idea.

We can all agree that both human "experts" and LLMs can sometimes be right, and sometimes be confidently wrong.

But that doesn't imply that they're equally fit for purpose. It just means that we can't use that simple shortcut to conclude that one is inferior to the other.

So where do we go from here?

p-e-w an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The amount of bullshit and blatant lies I’ve heard from my human teachers dwarfs the hallucinations produced by today’s LLMs.

repelsteeltje an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I found this interview [0] on the subject of AI in CS education on the Oxide & Friends podcast very illuminating. Of course, Brown University CS != All education, but interesting angle nevertheless.

[0] Episode webpage: https://share.transistor.fm/s/31855e83

mold_aid an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>LLMs can be wonderful teachers

Are they or aren't they

p-e-w an hour ago | parent | next [-]

A million times better than any human teacher I’ve ever had, for sure.

Now I’m certain that there exist those mythical human instructors who can do better, but that’s not worth much if 99.99% of people don’t have access to them. Just like a good human physician who takes their time with the patient is better than an LLM, but that’s not worth much either given that this doesn’t match most people’s experience with their own physicians.

vladms an hour ago | parent [-]

Did an LLM teach you a topic you did not feel like learning?

For me the best human teachers were the ones that managed to make me interested on topics that I thought are boring/useless (many times my opinion being stupid, mostly due to lack of experience).

So far with LLM I learn about things I know something (at least that they exist) and I am interested in, which is a small subset of things that one should learn during lifetime.

jimnotgym 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Well I have some evidence to support your hypothesis. During Covid my kids were at home, eventually with some kind of self learning website from school. I was upstairs working, checking in with progress on the parents app. Finish your daily school work and then you can game.

The kids learnt all about Team Fortress 2, Roblox, Rainbow Six etc. They also learnt how to game the learning system so it looked like they were doing their work.

throwaway132448 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Good point well made.

IanCal an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

They can be incredible. One on one teaching with an infinitely patient teacher who can generate interactive problems on the fly, for dollars a month? Wild. A year of paid ChatGPT would pay for about 9 hours of cheap tutoring here.

rockskon an hour ago | parent [-]

That's not going to work out the way you think it will when a student won't even know how to ask questions.

magic_hamster an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Education is also figured out. You just need to learn, do and practice for yourself. Telling the agent "to just do it for you" is tempting, but it's not learning. You need to be deliberate when you're trying to actually learn and internalize.

Also, you could spin up your own educational agent with very strict instructions on guiding the user instead of just doing the work. Of course you can always go around it but if you're making an effort to learn, this is a good middle ground.

pjc50 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Education is just a CTF for the valuable flag of a credential. In this essay I will --"