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mrhottakes 3 hours ago

Good. The US is reaping what it sows, and other research institutions will become the new leaders. Stinks for Americans, but the world will be better off overall.

alberto467 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not at all, the US is still the world leader in research institutions.

And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you.

chvid 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the highest ranked technical universities by the end of this decade will be Chinese. Things are accelerating more than I expected.

malshe 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've my doubts. Chinese researchers are publishing a lot but their papers are getting retracted at even higher rate. Currently, they account for 50% of all retractions across the publishers. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.19197v1

ggoo 3 hours ago | parent [-]

One of the best ways to get better at something difficult is to do it a lot.

malshe 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I guess they will be great at retractions at this rate

geodel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And there is no clamor Chinese green card either in politicians in China for students coming from other countries or in people outside coming to China. And if China will be having highest ranking technical universities, it means immigration is not a necessity for technical excellence or ranking as many keep alluding to.

mcmcmc 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some people would argue they’ve already taken the lead

electrondood 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Making America great again, again.

schnitzelstoat 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, in Europe we simply don't have the money.

And with an aging population and stagnant/declining productivity that seems unlikely to improve in the future.

If anyone is going to overtake the US, it will be China.

thenthenthen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sounds same as China? No money, aging population? Not sure how the Chinese Universities are doing, but the international ones seem struggling (they pay foreign faculty 5–10x more, by law). Not so sure about the next 5 years. Could be messy.

graemep 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not investing well in education, health and infrastructure is one of the causes of the decline of Europe, and stagnant productivity.

Its not even so much as money not being spent, as money being spent badly. In the UK money is wasted on having too many universities and too many undergraduates. There are badly thought out commercial research subsidies. Schools are driven my metrics in a large scale proof of Goodheart's (Campbell's ?) law.

KerrAvon 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why is this even an "if" at this point? China's EV industry has overtaken the US's. They are at worst only slightly behind in AI -- all of the best large open weight LLMs are from Chinese companies, and there are more major Chinese LLMs chasing SOTA than western SOTA LLMs.

Literally everything the second Trump administration has done in office has made the Chinese much stronger in every possible way, and the USA much weaker.

The USA isn't completely doomed if we can get past the current madness somehow. However, while I don't know what post-Trump America looks like, the USA has permanently ceded political and technical leadership. Trump has sealed the US's fate.

aleph_minus_one 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really.

I am not so sure about this. Many universities in Europe are still really good (even if they market their research achievements much less aggressively than US-American universities). The problem that exists in many European countries is that companies or startups have difficulties commercializing these research achievements.

mrhottakes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's exactly what's happening.

chanux 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

FWIW: https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-s...

j_maffe 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes but the trajectory is in free fall. With rise of research in China we'll have a more even playing field.

shaky-carrousel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The US is the world leader in lists compiled by who? I'm pretty sure China is the world leader in lists compiled by them.

rvz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most of Europe is behind because the money there has dried up. (Except for Norway)

> You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you.

The main issue is the 40TN debt that the US has which will soon matter. But the expected action that they will do is to continue printing and debasing the US dollar until they cannot.

ridiculous_leke 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Me crying as a South Asian

pavel_lishin 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Give us time.

danaw 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

americans right now: "hold my beer"

Gimpei 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If Europe wants to pick up the slack, it needs to start pumping an order of magnitude more money into its universities than it currently does. US universities dominate because they are rich. As a holder of a PhD from a European university, I don’t see this ever happening. But I would love to be proved wrong.

deepsun 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It needs to "start pumping" more money everywhere. Defense, for one.

epistasis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, everyone is worse off. There is nothing good that comes from this.

mrhottakes 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If you live outside the US, there is.

madars 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Speaking as a European who did his PhD at MIT: that's destructive zero-sum thinking and "outsiders benefit" is backwards.

Knowledge spillover benefits everyone - would there be ASML (Dutch) without DARPA's monumental fundamental research investment in EUV? BioNTech (German) without NIH-funded mRNA research? Without American investment this research likely wouldn't have happened or would have come a decade later.

epistasis 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

This is exactly right, the massive benefits of sticking a bunch of people with very abstruse interests close together is basically impossible to replicate. Labs, where people interact with each other daily and every week, where there's in-person exchange and chance encounters, is pretty difficult to simulate even with chat like IRC or forums or social media.

I browse science-focused social media and forums all the time. But the time spent doing that is never as good as going to a seminar presentation from somebody I've never seen before on a topic I never would have thought to investigate.

The world becomes poorer when these aggregation points are disaggregated. Reducing MIT's aggregation does not increase aggregation effects elsewhere.

I don't care if this happens at MIT in the US, or somewhere in Paris. Actually, I take that back, if the US continues its current authoritarian anti-open immigration policy, then I do care intensely that Paris or England or Berlin or wherever should become the center of academic innovation. Just as China's authoritarian closed policies make China unsuitable to be the academic center, Trump's authoritarian closed policies make MIT unsuitable. However Trump is weak, losing power, and in two years we can begin prosecuting all the people in his administration for their lawlessness, cruelty, and inhumanity. The US will rebuild, but it will take a while if we want to rebuild according to our constitution and laws.

idontwantthis 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If everyone loses but you lose less than the people you don’t like, does that make you a winner?

loudmax 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is MAGA in a nutshell.

KerrAvon 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Also child rape. Don't forget the child rape.

j_maffe 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When an aggressor loses their weapons, everyone else is a winner, yes.

epistasis 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

MIT is not a weapon. The scientific community is not an aggressor.

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> other research institutions will become the new leaders

Or the knowledge just goes away, the talent wasted.

shimman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Talent wasted in the US maybe, but plenty of professors across the world are doing equivalent work. To think only the US is capable of doing ground breaking research is extremely foolish and an insult to humanity.

fearmerchant 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Elite human capital isn't normally distributed.

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And neither is the capital equipment of research. The same mind will be far more effective with more resources than without, and when surrounded with similarly-enabled colleagues. (To explain it any other way requires some pretty racist reasoning around why scientific progress was dominated by a small group of countries over the last century or so.)

mrhottakes 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You sow, then you reap. That's how it goes.

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

History is filled with episodes where collapsing empires took their knowledge centers with them, where for centuries thereafter the work was in recovering that lost knowledge versus advancing the frontier. It may seem self serving coming from an American. But I wouldn’t cheer on the collapse of an academic institution anywhere.

j_maffe 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I wouldn't either. But the world is a better place with I would cheer the of an academic institution to lose its lead when it has deep ties with a military that terrorizes the world.

mainecoder 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No this is not good for the World in case you have forgotten America is part of the world and though I hate what is happening just as much as anyone I will work to make this nation better. We are in a tough time and I genuinely do not know if things will get better but we will try.

j_maffe 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> America is part of the world

A belligerent part of the world. I hope the US gets better in that regard.

drstewart 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The rest of the world is so peaceful and war-free, of course.

j_maffe an hour ago | parent [-]

Yeah well I hope those other parts improve as well in their conduct. We live in a non-zero sum game, after all.

epolanski 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When there's less competition and opportunities for talent the whole community, globally, is impacted.

There's really nothing good about it.

j_maffe 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's very funny because up until very recently there was very little competition because one nation was dominating research using talents from other countries. Consider it as a weakening of a monopoly

Levitz 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

You say that as if talent was kidnapped and dragged against their will.

People go to the US because of an abundance of infrastructure and money. Which now goes down.

It's a loss.

mrits 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The world will catch up around the same time research institutions become obsolete.