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jmuguy 5 hours ago

I'm more worried about the early inclusion into the Nasdaq 100 index and if other indexes will follow. I don't want my retirement to be passively buying Elon's latest shell game.

snek_case 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah this is pretty shady. The S&P 500 in particular has fairly strict criteria (e.g. 4 consecutive quarters of profitability) and those criteria exist for a reason. They made me more comfortable buying the S&P 500 knowing I'm not buying pre-revenue companies. This is a bad precedent to set just to please Elon.

Ajedi32 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm a bit out of the loop, but has SpaceX not been profitable for the last 4 quarters? I understand they're investing a lot into R&D for Starship but I was under the impression they've been making a killing on Starlink.

_aavaa_ an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe, but since then it has absorbed xAI and Twitter, neither of which are known for producing money.

jmuguy 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Starlink itself is profitable but the insane valuation they're trying to get for the IPO is based on an assumed continued massive growth of users - and even then I don't think Starlink by itself makes SpaceX a trillion dollar company.

ben_w 4 hours ago | parent [-]

If Musk personally wasn't completely toxic worldwide, and if there wasn't all the other new space companies noticing the Egg of Columbus* that is cheap rockets and the potential for comm sat constellations that launch prices enable, I could believe 100e6 people would buy a $50/month service. A common rating for valuation is profit over 20 years, that revenue (not profit, IDK the margin) would be $1.2T.

* Egg of Columbus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_of_Columbus

Many seem to also be doing this with androids around the time he started talking about them, hence how we can buy them and put them to work even though Optimus still hasn't launched yet.

jauntywundrkind 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Past performance as a company is like 20% of the concern here.

The concern is ~80% that a brand new stock enters the market & immediately has to be bought by everyone. The market has no time to adjust & settle.

This is fleecing everyone & it's entirely unclear under what madness this would ever have been considered.

There's so many irregularities and abnormalities being considered here, and all of them seem like pretty straightforward safeguards. It feels like nothing short of a conspiracy that so many norms would be pushed aside to consider listing spacex so quickly in so many indexes. "The proposal could also remove the minimum Investable Weight Factor requirement for megacap companies." For fuck sake! https://x.com/Benzinga/status/2050244492335206911

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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altcognito 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is why he (and other billionaires) are pining to get Social Security replaced with an indexed based retirement fund?

funimpoded 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Absolutely, that's the main reason there's been a push for that for decades. It's a giant pile of poor people's money that rich people can't easily skim from, and they'd really, really like to. Once it's "in the market" they gain all kinds of options for turning some of that money into their money, some immediately, some with tweaks to laws or policy.

trunkiedozer 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

That’s literally not how it works. You buy a share of stock and participate in their gains. For example, I owned a bunch of Tesla stock since around 2017. Now I have a ton in the stock as well as a new house and a model s plaid thanks to their greatness. Did the same with Apple, that is my retirement and travel fund. it ain’t hard.

trunkiedozer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Way better returns when you take charge of your investments rather than bitching about the government, anyone can be a millionaire with minimal effort, just being smart.

elevation 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Social Security replaced with an index

Yes please!

I learned just how bad of a deal Social Security is when an employer (a bootstrapped startup) offered a predatory 401k plan. It was free for my employer to setup but the employees were stuck with extremely high fees. It was so bad that John Oliver made an episode[0] about it!

Yet, even for the worst 401K plan in America, the projected retirement returns were 1600% of the Social Security returns. Even America's worst 401K would be better for the average consumer than the federal debacle

Uncle Sam should sunset SSI and allow citizens to select from and move freely between a number of accredited funds.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY

altcognito 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you aware that SSI is an insurance (or lifetime annuity) not an investment?

SSI covers disability, and supplements income no matter what happens. Disability? You're covered. Live to 105? You're covered. Market dips 50% in a period you have a lot of expenses? Your benefits are unaffected.

Tax advantaged 401k is already the vehicle of choice for retirement funds.

Ajedi32 4 hours ago | parent [-]

1600% higher returns can cover a lot of eventualities.

compsciphd 3 hours ago | parent [-]

it doesn't cover you getting disabled so you can't work anymore at the age of 30 after working 8 years.

1600% higher return is great when you work from yours 20s to your 50s/60s and can essentially self insure yourself at that point with it, but as the person you are responding to you is (I believe) trying to say, that's not everyone.

Ajedi32 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Fair, but given that we're talking about a hypothetical government program, "index-based retirement fund" doesn't imply you're the only one contributing to said fund.

trunkiedozer 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Absolutely!

jmuguy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Who knows, I mean it would certainly make it easier for them to turn the entire population into their bag holders. Don't even have to hype the company any more or spin up a bunch of bullshit about space.

kristofferR 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not to mention that they always harp on it being supposedly unsustainable and insolvent, while deliberately not mentioning that it is solely because the social security is the most regressive tax, where the more you earn the lower your rate.

If it was a flat tax where everyone paid the same percentage of instead of a regressive tax where only working people pay the rate, then social security would be well funded.

Obviously they don’t want to pay the same tax rate as working people, so theyd rather get rid of social security instead.

lotsofpulp 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This is not correct. For people who earn less than the SS wage cap ($184.5k in 2026), Social Security is a progressive tax due to the bend points in the benefit formula. You explicitly get less benefit for each additional dollar you pay in tax.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/bendpoints.html

But every dollar of income earned over the SS wage cap reduces effective tax rate. The more you earn, the less the effective Social Security tax rate is for you. At Elon Musk levels, it rounds down to zero. Therefore, there would be no motivation for super rich people to get rid of social security.

The only material reduction in tax rate would be for those relying on annual earned income of a few hundred thousand dollars or less (i.e. the bottom 95% of income earners).

kristofferR 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's what I'm saying, they pretend that the only way to fix SS is to cut services/replace it, because actually fixing it without cuts would involve removing the lobbyhole/cap that makes their rate close to zero.

outside1234 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. This is exactly right. They want a constant source of buying that they can steer investments into.

lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am a non billionaire and I would prefer Social Security to go away.

Mathematically, there is no alternative to the purchasing power of my Social Security benefits being reduced, simply due to the changes in the population age histogram.

It has to become more and more of a wealth transfer from the working to non working, which means my kids will benefit less and less from their work.

WarmWash 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Pretty much everyone already has an index based retirement fund.

outside1234 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The reason we have social security like it is is twofold: 1) current retirees are paid directly from our contributions. There is no pot of money to be invested and 2) we want to be able to guarantee a defined benefit that is not below a certain number. You can't do that with the market.

WarmWash 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Between the pyramid scheme nature of social security, the high inflation potential of the USD, and the ability for politicians to leverage social security for short term approval boosts

You definitely can't do it with the government either...

throwaway786346 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

outside1234 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think it really speaks volumes that they only thing you have on Obama is that he spent $70M with Russia to get astronauts to the ISS in an effort to show them that we could be partners (versus them lose a million people in a war with Ukraine).

4 hours ago | parent [-]
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5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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trunkiedozer 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I made a ton off of Tesla, expecting to do the same with spacex.