| ▲ | oooyay a day ago |
| There are two simultaneous problems that I've come to understand with datacenters and the people that live in their proximity: 1. Somehow the public is always left holding the bag for increased transmission costs despite the cause of the increase being a single (or short list) of outliers. 2. The residential public, as is tradition, is always asked to scale down for industrial demand. How can we imagine expanding a system that results in both of these outcomes? That, to me, seems to be the thing to fix first. |
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| ▲ | PieTime a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is the same issue for water in California as well. Growing water thirsty crops in a desert to use an allocation while average people are asked to conserve. |
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| ▲ | jmyeet a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Transferring wealth from the young and poor to the old and wealthy is the entire purpose of our government. This is now the endpoint we are bouldering towards: the bottom 90% increasingly have nothing left to steal or exploit. And just like an algal bloom that eventually runs out of oxygen and dies, this is where this system and our society unravels. |
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| ▲ | cucumber3732842 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > the old and wealthy The government will throw them under the bus in a heartbeat to keep power. | | |
| ▲ | jerlam a day ago | parent [-] | | The government would, except that they tend to vote in much greater numbers than other groups, so keeping them happy is important to stay in power. | | |
| ▲ | scoofy 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | The success of the YIMBY movement is basically like watching this power shift happen in real time. |
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| ▲ | therobots927 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | *Transferring wealth from the poor to the rich | | |
| ▲ | scoofy a day ago | parent | next [-] | | No... we are specifically transferring it from the young. This is happening across the west. Once birth control was created, we kicked off a ticking time bomb of a crisis by not actually changing our social safety nets, with fewer young people paying to support an much larger number of older folks. At the same time, our entire housing shortage is designed to enrich the homeowners by protecting the value of their property at the expense of the young who live with a zero-sum shortage, when previous generations could typically buy a home at, or near, the cost of construction. We need to be honest that while yes, we are transferring wealth from the poor to the rich, we are also transferring wealth from the young to the old. | | |
| ▲ | jjav a day ago | parent [-] | | > fewer young people paying to support an much larger number of older folks The largest generation by population in the US is Millenials, second largest in Gen Z. https://www.populationpyramids.org/generations/united-states | | |
| ▲ | scoofy 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's very obviously not the total number of people that matters. It's the difference in the number of people being funded and doing the funding. The math is fairly straightforward: # of Boomers - Greatest Gen > Millennials - Boomers This means that Millennials will have a greater burden than Boomers did. Which means Millennials will live with fewer resources. | | |
| ▲ | jjav 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't follow this comment at all, sorry. Presumably you're comparing people of working age contributing to social security vs. people in retirement receiving social security. That age can vary but let's pick 65 as a typical retirement age. Here's another data source: https://theworlddata.com/us-population-by-age/ There are 205.7 million working age adults vs. 61.2 million of age 65 and older. From where do you get the "fewer young people paying to support an much larger number of older folks"? | | |
| ▲ | scoofy 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I don't follow this comment at all, sorry. I worry that someone here who can't follow a simple a population delta mapping from one generation to another isn't exactly arguing in good faith. >Presumably you're comparing people of working age contributing to social security vs. people in retirement receiving social security. No, we are talking about the previous net contributors (vs receivers) -- that is Boomers vs Greatest Gen in the 1980s -- versus the current net contributors (vs receivers), e.g. Millennials vs Boomers now. That number has gone down dramatically, and because of that, social security is effectively insolvent. >Under the current structure, the Social Security Administration estimates that Social Security will pay full benefits until 2033, when it will be forced to reduce benefits by about 23%. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2026/05/12/the-comin... The reason why it's insolvent now is that the relative number of payment contributors to payment receivers has gone down dramatically. Today there are "fewer young people per old person" than there were in previous generations. |
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| ▲ | cute_boi a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | And because poor people don’t have much money, the government decided it could borrow heavily from future generations and give it to rich ppl, making them even poorer. |
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| ▲ | TitaRusell a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The reality is that these data centers make money for billionaire douchebags. And unlike the billionaire douchebags of yesteryear they don't invest in the local economy. NOTHING IS TRICKLING DOWN
In fact our modern billionaire douchebags love talking about how much they hate humanity. |
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| ▲ | butvacuum a day ago | parent [-] | | nothing ever trickled down. philanthropy is not trickle down, and the gates foundation has to be one of the most critical I know of. | | |
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| ▲ | Noaidi a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The idea that capitalism off loads the cost of externalities onto the unwitting public is nothing new. This is just the most recent and obvious version. Air anbd water pollution are the old ones. They make the pollution and the public pays for it with superfund sites or increased health care costs. The solution is having the consumer pay for the externalities when they use the product. But this would make AI so much more expensive. When you use AI you are exploiting other people. Just keep that in mind. |
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| ▲ | catlikesshrimp a day ago | parent | next [-] | | The last two sentences are drawing downvotes to an otherwise sensible comment. | | |
| ▲ | Noaidi a day ago | parent [-] | | I agree. But is it a false statement? | | |
| ▲ | mindslight a day ago | parent [-] | | It's the tired pattern of absolving the direct bad actors (the corpos themselves), as well as corrupt regulators who give them a pass, in favor of diffusing the responsibility onto individuals. If we're talking about collective action to solve the problem, it should be more of the form of demanding regulation that directly stops the bad actors, rather than this nonsensical fallacy from the same vein as "voting with our wallets". |
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| ▲ | jshen a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think it's people that do that, not capitalism. This happens in every system that has existed in human history. | | |
| ▲ | tadfisher a day ago | parent [-] | | Absolutely not. The default economic system is anarchy, also known as sharing and mutual aid. You see this even in the reddest of US states, where disaster victims help each other, and a huge pastime is sharing food via potlucks. But all evidence points to anarchical/egalitarian cultures as the baseline mechanism of human organization from prehistory. Externalities don't exist in anarchic systems, because there is no hierarchical separation between producer and consumer. You can't push off costs to some members of the community when they have equal power to retaliate in kind, and there is no incentive to do so. | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Externalities don't exist in anarchic systems Sure they do. I do a thing, it benefits me but causes a problem for my neighbor in the process, I say "oh well fuck him", that's a textbook externality. > they have equal power to retaliate in kind A convenient fiction often engaged in by proponents of anarchy. In practice if you compare pairs of people at random you will find almost none that can reasonably be described as equal. Equality is something imposed by the law in an attempt to improve our lives on average. Anarchy lasts exactly as long as it takes people to start banding together and no longer. | |
| ▲ | hdgvhicv a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ok so you’d win a community upstream on a river and you build a dam and hive off the water Downstream 500 miles away another community loses their water source Those externalities still exist | |
| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | catlikesshrimp a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Haiti is in Anarchy. All sharing and mutual aid is shadowed by resource and power struggle. It is even worse than communism and fascism. | | |
| ▲ | Noaidi a day ago | parent [-] | | > Haiti is in Anarchy This is what people say when they have no idea what people mean by the POLITICAL system of Anarchism (Libertarian Socialism). Anarchism, the political system, is not "chaos". That is propaganda that started during the 1930's. If you want to learn about it, real the Anarchist FAQ. (I have a degrees in American History and Economics if that matters). https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-ed... | | |
| ▲ | CamperBob2 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, and communism has never been given a fair shake, either. For that matter, neither has laissez-faire capitalism. At some point, you need to accept that your favorite "-ism" has an impedance mismatch with human nature. | | |
| ▲ | tadfisher a day ago | parent [-] | | Anarchism means "without hierarchy". This how humans organized until the populations of sedentary agricultural communities exploded. I will argue, and keep arguing despite downvotes, that anarchism has the least impedance mismatch with human nature out of every system, because it was the status quo before civilization became the norm. | | |
| ▲ | jshen a day ago | parent [-] | | pretty sure humans had hierarchy from the beginning. |
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| ▲ | sieabahlpark a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | jshen a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | CamperBob2 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Externalities don't exist in anarchic systems Neither do computers. |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | cute_boi a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| How will this be fixed when the public doesn’t have any power to make changes, and politicians are bribed—i.e., lobbied—by all these companies building data centers? |