Remix.run Logo
jklinger410 3 hours ago

If you want people to like AI, show them a future that doesn't leave them in abject poverty.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> show them a future that doesn't leave them in abject poverty

To be fair, this isn’t the commencement speaker’s job.

breakpointalpha an hour ago | parent [-]

If this is sarcasm, it's amazing. If not, depressing.

I would 100% expect a commencement speaker to be hyping me up for what comes next.

JumpCrisscross 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

> would 100% expect a commencement speaker to be hyping me up

That’s what this speaker was trying to do. The problem is it was stupid and dishonest. It could have been done properly. But none of that will rise to the level of a roadmap. If you’re looking for a roadmap at commencement, you were failed at multiple steps before.

andai an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cost of goods and services drops by orders of magnitude at every point in the supply chain.

That being said we already have relative superabundance and we're more miserable than ever, so it's not clear that more of it will cheer us up.

jklinger410 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Unemployment rampant. All production remains in the hands of a few. All power (tokens) remains in the hands of a few. Goods are cheaper but no one can buy them. Path to the upper class now guarded closely by tokens, potential avenues for entrepreneurs diminish rapidly. Own an AI or compute, get someone to give you tokens, or live in poverty.

Distribution of abundance in current time is close to evil, America reducing entitlements and support (not expanding). Rampant waste. No reason to think any of this will change.

voxl 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is the kind of commentary that is completely detached from reality: people want housing, people want food, people want gas.

It's not great that we can buy iphones (and AI is going to cause all electronics to be scarce, so much for abundance there)

CivBase an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> Cost of goods and services drops by orders of magnitude at every point in the supply chain.

That sounds great, but how are LLMs supposed to achieve this? You can't just say "AI will make a utopia". You have to present a vision for how it will get us there.

I'm tired of hearing about how AI will solve all the worlds problems. I want to see actual progress towards achieving these goals. And for the most part that hasn't manifested. Most people would consider AI to have had a net negative impact on their lives.

richwater 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's quite an unsubstantiated leap. The world has gone through plenty of digital transformations and the number of people in poverty has only _shrank_.

xantronix 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's hard not to make that leap when so many layoffs are (according to PR releases anyway) attributed to AI adoption. Even if the reality on the ground is that many of these workforce reductions are to make the balance sheets look better (presumably as a bet on AI), it's impossible to ignore the accelerating wealth gap, especially in the context of the gutting of regulations and state actors leveraging world events on prediction markets. We will not be given a fair deal if we simply wait for our benefactors to provide one.

anigbrowl 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The number of people in absolute poverty has shrunk, but the proportion of national income held by the wealthy has increased, so economic mobility is declining. There are many reasons for this, but typically deployment of technology is a capital expense and employers aim to realize all the gains from their investment, notwithstanding the upskilling and/or deskilling effect it has on workers, who are treated as fungible economic units rather than people. Nobody likes this except capitalists.

piloto_ciego 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Doom is popular right now. People want to feel terrible and pessimistic and their media diets only reinforce this.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To be fair, the labour market for a recent humanities graduate is quite crap right now, too.

Esophagus4 an hour ago | parent [-]

In particular, CS students are feeling it more than most majors. (Especially compared with the shock that most of them probably thought CS was the field for job security.)

Saw an article recently that said CS majors were up there with performing arts majors and art history majors in terms of unemployment rate.

jklinger410 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

To be fair the last 60 years have seen wealth distribution consolidate at the top of this country at rates never seen in human history.

satisfice 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Then it should easy to show a world where we are all not in abject poverty. We’re waiting.

danaris 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, but during those transformations, the CEOs of the companies selling the products involved weren't actively and aggressively marketing them as being able to replace all the humans they employ.

You can't have it both ways: either LLMs are an amazing, revolutionary technology that can replace many human jobs in unprecedented ways, or it's going to be a mild transition that really only helps people.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> the CEOs of the companies selling the products involved weren't actively and aggressively marketing them as being able to replace all the humans they employ

The assembly line was explicitly about replacing skilled with relatively unskilled labor.

zamadatix 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It isn't the first time a new technology has been pitched to replace many worker's jobs, both successful and unsuccessful versions of the promise have come to pass several times.

I think what they are saying is "that something can replace a job does not inherently imply the next step is poverty". From that perspective, you can absolutely have it both (and many other combinations of) ways.

madaxe_again 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That was exactly what a great many things were marketed as, such as the jacquard loom and dynamite.

What actually happened in each case was that employment went up for a good long while, as the efficiency boost to the sectors touched made investment far more viable. Eventually successive rounds of automation did reduce employment in each of weaving and mining, but it wasn’t an overnight catastrophe as initially advertised or feared.

Sh0000reZ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do we want to be distracted by sewing shirts and writing Python scripts when the hardware can do the math for us?

Programmers (and other workers but this a tech centric forum) need to start to accept that programming was a necessary evil of the before times. We didn't have the theories. We didn't have the manufacturing techniques.

Before hardware was powerful enough to run models on a laptop we needed all that hand crafted custom state management to avoid immediate resource exhaustion. Or to hide the deficiencies of the chips of the day.

For all the appeals of tech workers to a lean into a high tech life, programming as humans did in the before times seems pretty outdated. Bring back rotary phones too, I guess.

If we don't have jobs we are free to:

Take up arms against an exploitative political and owner class minority.

Make sure grandma and the kids are ok. Everyone has enough to eat?

Free the sweatshop kids we exploit without giving them a choice of "the mines" or college, from obligations to our own meat suits

???? What else?

Whole lot of job culture too was just busy work to satisfy the beliefs of they who are generationally churning out of life. Bye grandpa; thanks for zero assurances but tons of obligations; you won't be missed!

Elon and such are not an immutable constant of the universe. Few more years and he'll be Mitch McConnelling out on TV. Especially with all the drug abuse.

Everyone under 50 needs to prepare for the future not LARP the past.

jklinger410 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why don't you show us how AI will not create abject poverty?

How are we not going to be begging whoever controls chip fabs and electrical plants for compute tokens? HOW!? EXPLAIN IT.

Sh0000reZ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Settle down, toddler.

I am meeting with my state legislators this week to, among other things, discuss how big tech should be on the same hook as the food industry who have to label their products in the open.

How all the auto standards are openly legislated, AI standards should be as well. It's just electrical physics not magic.

How like the government has to release laws, big tech should have to release all code, guiding theoretical principles, training and development environments and attest that is what they loaded on those servers.

Use their tools against them; they have the government in their cornering giving them handouts. Go get yours.

You all came up in a society that afforded zero assurances this whole time. Rather than idle about jerking off the American ego perhaps you should have listened to everyone saying this was coming a decade ago. Two decades ago. 4 decades ago.

I have zero respect for my fellow Americans. Willfully ignorant and willingly exploited serfs. Forget I said anything; you all didn't do the political action work to put me on the hook for your healthcare so thoughts and prayers, HNers.

whatshisface an hour ago | parent | next [-]

How would improved standards and reliability make the AI alternative to white collar jobs less appealing?

jklinger410 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> you all didn't do the political action work to put me on the hook for your healthcare so thoughts and prayers, HNers.

Ah so your answer is AI will cause most people to live in abject poverty. Good talk.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Settle down, toddler

Please don’t do this.

Sh0000reZ an hour ago | parent [-]

I am not going to be "yelled at" as is the common social interpretation of ALL CAPS

What is this? The NBA? You want people to stick to social norms, call it both ways.

JumpCrisscross a minute ago | parent [-]

> You want people to stick to social norms, call it both ways

Oh, I downvoted both of you. But I only flagged you because of the name calling, which is against the guidelines [1]. When I flag I like to give the person on the other side a note, in case they genuinely didn’t know.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sh0000reZ an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From what I can find online there is $12 billion in mortgages outstanding in the US[1]

ICE has an $80 billion budget.

Demand Congress pay off mortgages rather than hand Leon Skum tens of billions.

There you go. Stability.

[1] https://www.fhfa.gov/data/dashboard/nmdb-outstanding-residen...

HanayamaTriplet 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

That says $12,000 billion, not $12 billion. (Aside from the question of paying off mortgages being a good idea or not.)

pesus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How am I going to do any of that when I can't pay the bills and become homeless? That's what actually happens when you don't have jobs.

Sh0000reZ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

At this point money is essentially a social construct. None of the billionaires have a Scrooge McDuck vault full of gold coins.

Think ST:TNG; automation makes enough stuff. Why worry about money?

So focus on political action then; log off this VC funded freebie intended to ameliorate your feelings about the rich owners and operators of this site, and do like they do; tell government to make things right by you or we replace government.

You think PG is sitting on the sidelines letting Congress figure out themselves? He's putting his thumb on the scale through his actions through social networking with politicians.

Gotta leave the basement and do the work

Americans are heavily propagandized and naive af. So exhausted by educated morons.

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The funny thing is that it's not even true. People invested in AI just glee at the thought of common men in abject poverty, so this is the marketing that stuck.

Shows you don't need to have red skin and horns to delight in the suffering of starving people.

trhway 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

the same people who have been using the AI to write their papers, etc.. while supposedly "not liking it". Classic hypocrisy. You can't have it both ways.

College graduates being that myopic and failing at such basic logic. One can only wonder about the quality of education they've got and how it would help them in the modern technological world. Though being that hypocritical may be they would exactly do very well.

>University of Central Florida’s College of Arts and Humanities and Nicholson School of Communication and Media

yep, clearly not Stanford.

pesus 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For someone taking about basic logic, you're making quite the leap in logic by assuming they used LLMs to do every single bit of schoolwork.

trhway 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

jklinger410 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> You can't have it both ways.

Yes you can. They use AI and also despise it because it will turn the world into one big caste system. Ones with access to compute, and ones without.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Ones with access to compute, and ones without

College graduates in a rich, food- and energy-exporting democracy at the centre of the AI build-out will be on the receiving end of this transfer.

The places where should be panic are the Middle East, Russia and South Asia.