> South Africa is really thriving these days eh?

I know you meant this sarcastically, but unironically yes. GDP has more than doubled since the end of apartheid, and it has the strongest economy on the continent

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newsclues 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Safety matters more than GDP imo

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/south-africa

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mothballed an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

LMAO, now normalize it against world change in GDP since the end of apartheid. Pre-apartheid they were beating the world average, all times after apartheid they have been behind world average.

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/DG...

Especially the last 20 years, it is falling off a cliff in relative performance. Yeah the post-apartheid peak was 10% above the apartheid peak from the 80s.... unfortunately if you can only get 10% better in 40 years it actually represents a massive failure relative to the rest of the world.

I'd agree that apartheid was bad, but it seems to be coupled with other factors that led them to fall behind on the world stage. I'm guessing the kind of ideology that accompanies literal filled stadiums shouting "kill the boer farmer" is not so far fetched from the kind of ideology that resulted in Zimbabwe going for broke.

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tclancy an hour ago | parent [-]

>I'd agree that apartheid was bad

At least we have finally settled that.

>I'm guessing the kind of ideology that accompanies literal filled stadiums shouting "kill the boer farmer" is not so far fetched from the kind of ideology that resulted in Zimbabwe going for broke.

Zimbabwe's failure is pretty clear: total corruption under one man. South Africa, post-Apartheid, has an unhappy history of corruption as well. But it is confounding how one reaches for the "anti-white racism" explanation before considering how centuries of colonial "oppression" (which a fun euphemism for violence and denying education) might lead to a situation where government functions poorly when you abandon ship and leave your government setup in place for people with no experience and no mentor to figure out.

	▲	mothballed 34 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		>when you abandon ship and leave your government setup in place for people with no experience and no mentor to figure out. >>"Kill the boer" "Kill" doesn't sound like mentorship. You can argue they just mean rip them out of power/office, which they have done, but the ANC's message has not been "lets use the colonizers as our mentors." >Zimbabwe's failure is pretty clear: total corruption under one man. I don't think it's that simple. They tried to basically replace the colonial-style farming model almost overnight, handing over agriculture to black citizens. They tried to throw out the bathwater of "colonialization" while thinking they could keep the baby with it. One could argue South Africa is trying some similar things at slow speed and seeing if the trainwreck works better if you play it in slow motion. If they were really just trying to replicate the success of before except without apartheid, I don't know how you can even do that while simultaneously promising all the socialist reform and goodies of the ANC. It's like having the new guy show up and training him, and he's tell you that you're wrong and he has no idea how to do it but know's you're doing it wrong. If your goal is be mentored you'll have to get proficient at what your mentor is doing so you have some frame of reference to see if your "improvements" even work or are the reason why you're failing relative to your mentor.