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anonymousiam 9 hours ago

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will.

Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid.

The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they're finally scheduling public hearings after the fact. The announcement doesn't even mention the Demand Charge by name, and many consumers aren't even aware they they're about to be screwed.

One of the more obscene things about this new charge is that people with PV arrays will pay a fee for demanding more power from their own grid-tied systems.

https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_i...

robotbikes 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of these rules happen at the regulatory level so lawmakers don't typically understand them in depth and get a lot of their explanations from utility lobbyists or the regulatory agency itself, if they even get involved or pay attention. The dramatic increases being directly linked to data centers is big enough for consumers to notice though.

That's why these independent counsels are pretty important such as the Maryland agency mentioned in this article. Since utilities at least on the distribution side are pretty much monopolies people have no choice but to pay the agreed rate.

georgemcbay 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> lawmakers don't typically understand them in depth and get a lot of their explanations from utility lobbyists or the regulatory agency itself, if they even get involved or pay attention.

I think you are being far too charitable here and in most cases it is weaponized ignorance at best.

Why dig into the minutia of the actual rules when you can just have the people donating money to you while benefiting from you not really fixing anything just tell you what you should do...?

AntiUSAbah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are killing themselves with this ignorance.

The pressure onto normal citizens will push and increase renewable energy build out (E-Car, Balcony solar/roof solar), to get away from these companies faster. Their utility will increase further, the pressure increases even more.

But people like Elon Musk are also very ignorant: He populates going into space to fix the energy topic, but apparently can't do math because it would be a lot cheaper to use batteries and solar and potentially also sell the heat the DCs produce instead of doing any of it in space.

It would even be easier to just buy something in new mexico, building out the energy infrastructure in a non livable area because latency doesn't matter that much with AI (not all use cases, but for that you have edge locations).

The richest and smartest people (excluding here elon musk) are not able to do a fast proper buildout? ... They could even just build a whole town with DCs and combine this with other energy intensive industries and sharing the prorcess heat reuse.

JuniperMesos 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not necessarily do what is in my own long-term interest, and I don't necessarily want them to win against big money.

> Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid.

Excess solar power generated by ordinary consumers is probably being priced correctly - excess solar power generation happens during the day when the sun is high, which means there's a glut of power because everyone with a solar panel generates a lot then. Solar power is scarcer and therefore more expensive when the sun is not shining bright, and this is not the time when customers are selling excess power back to the grid. Generous rates for buying power from customers were an effective subsidy to get people to install home solar panel systems, and that subsidy works less and less well as more and more power on the grid gets generated via solar panels and the difference in grid-wide power availability at different times based on the height of the sun becomes more and more important.

tokioyoyo 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There's 'big money' and, there's also "BIG MONEY". Former doesn't always win against the government, the latter pretty much overrules anything.

oivey 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Excess solar power generated by ordinary consumers is probably being priced correctly

Do you have any evidence for this position? Is this just regulations giving you bad vibes? I’m pretty sure everyone was quite aware the sun doesn’t shine at night whenever the previous rules and regulations were written. Your analysis isn’t breaking new ground.

hnthrowaway0315 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The super riches are already winning so many times. The US is missing regulations, and at the same time over-regulate areas that it should not.

JuniperMesos an hour ago | parent [-]

I don't think this is particularly due to the super-rich, over everyone else in society. A lot of the bad regulations I care most about are driven by ordinary people who own their own home and not a whole lot else, and are sincerely-supported by many people I know personally.

light_hue_1 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not necessarily do what is in my own long-term interest, and I don't necessarily want them to win against big money.

I am A YIMBY too. But no, big money is not on your side. Big money wants to make money, not make your life better. It would like to build as much as possible for as little as possible, at the lowest quality possible, and sell it for an extremely high price. This isn't good for any of us.

PeterStuer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Typical: YIMBY that does not own a back yard. Makes it just another YIYBY.

estimator7292 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

moistoreos 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hey bud, do you happen to know when the demand for power is the highest? It happens to be.... gasp.... when the sun is highest in the sky.

Just take a look at ERCOT's website: https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand

harry19023 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's just not true. Here's the California grid from yesterday: https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2026-05-09

Peak demand is 6 PM when everyone gets home from work and turns on the air conditioning.

EDIT: Your chart shows the same thing? Demand is highest at 6 pm, not noon.

moistoreos 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Ah, yes. California. Where large swathes of costal areas hover between 60ºF and 80ºF. We are talking about Nevada the weather of locality matters and where it can be supremely hot.

harry19023 5 hours ago | parent [-]

You posted the Texas grid, I posted the California grid. Here's the NW grid which includes Nevada. Same thing, demand peaks around 6PM when people get home and turn on their houses.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/expanded-view/el...

close04 an hour ago | parent [-]

In France there are 2 peaks in a working day, one around 12:00-13:00, and one around 19:00. On weekends there's a third peak around 22:00-23:00.

https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/elec...

JuniperMesos 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, the chart you posted clearly shows that in Texas demand for power is highest at around 5-6pm, which is decidedly not when the sun is highest in the sky - it's when the sun is setting and the workday is ending but people are still active and doing things, many of which require electric power - perhaps more electric power than they would use during the workday depending on what the thing is. This is precisely the Duck Curve observation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve) - which was originally coined with respect to the California electricity market but is applicable in many other markets.

leonidasrup 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not obscene it's economics - supply and demand.

In power grid dominated by solar production the value of MWh of electricity is highest at night (because the supply from solar is zero), the value MWh of electricity is lowest at noon (because the supply from solar is maximal). So the residential grid-tied PV system is supplying power when the value of electricity is low and consuming power when the value of electricity is high.

Better solution than fix rates are digital smart meters which calculate using variable rates from electricity market.

developerDan 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes it’s economics, but that doesn’t exempt it from being “obscene” if that is how one sees it.

leonidasrup an hour ago | parent [-]

One could also argue that negative electricity prices at noon are "obscene".

It doesn't make economic sense to push for more solar in a grid dominated by solar without additional investments into electricity storage and these investments have to be paid by someone.

Rollout of digital smart meters for households makes sense, so that people can make use of cheap electricity at noon. Large customers of electricity already now buy electricity either on electricity market at variable raters or have specific long-term contracts with electricity suppliers.

eowln 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The good thing about democracy is that you get screwed anyway and then you are made to feel like it was your fault.

DANmode 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid.

Batteries are cheaper every week.

Time to build kWh Victory gardens.

StromFLIX 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In Germany its getting insane right now. A lot of the time energy at noon is negative. https://blog.stromflix.com/price-of-power

JuniperMesos 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

A price signal that noon is a great time to do AI inference. Unfortunately, people often want AI inference done at other times than noon, when electricity isn't negatively-priced because of abundant solar panels making it in broad sunshine.

anonymousiam 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think a Powerwall is in my future...

idontwantthis 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s not clear to me that the demand charge will cause bills to increase at all and, on its face, it makes sense to charge separately for peak power consumption as well as total energy consumption.

jonhohle 4 hours ago | parent [-]

As someone with a demand charge, let me disagree. The worst single hour out of 60-70 throughout the month is used and in my market it’s about $19/kw demand. Turn on the AC once during that period, $80. Happen to have to have an oven or microwave going at the same time, you’re probably over $100. For one hour on one day of the month. Once you screw your month, you’re free to do it the rest of the month, but it only takes once.

idontwantthis 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What you have described is an obviously terrible system that doesn’t incentivize lower power consumption.

That’s not how it’s going to work in Nevada. It will be the highest 15 minute period of each day, so if you spread out your power usage you have room to game the rates and save money. And if you have a bad day it will only cost you a dollar or two and the next day is fresh.

Plus it’s not on top of the total consumption. The consumption rate is getting cut so that people should be paying roughly the same amount as before.

Gibbon1 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Friend of mine used to work in that space. He said there were people who were trying to do their job making sure the rate payers interests were being looked after. And people whose only interest was sucking up to the utilities in hope that they'll be rewarded by an offer to switch sides.

seany 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

One more reason to go off grid