| ▲ | loloquwowndueo 6 hours ago |
| Dunno man, those things you say were “horrible” before the advent of mobile phones, media players and gps (not even the internet; usable incarnations of those inventions were entirely independent from the internet) - I was also there and it was _fine_. |
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| ▲ | pdonis 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I never had the problems with tapes that the author describes--but I still preferred CDs when they came out, and I greatly prefer having my entire music library on a single USB stick that I can just plug into my car. I was able to find my way around okay with paper maps--but I still prefer having GPS in my phone. My issue with those passages is that the author is conflating "digital" or "computers are involved" with "Internet". They're not the same. |
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| ▲ | loloquwowndueo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I’m not saying the newer alternatives are not convenient! Just saying the old ones were OK; not the garment-rending disaster TFA purports them to be. | | |
| ▲ | pdonis 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It would appear that they were a "garment-rending disaster" at least to some, like the author of the article. |
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| ▲ | ajross 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > having my entire music library on a single USB stick Worth pointing out how this too is an example of somewhat mistaken value analysis based on libertarian ideals. The market winning solution, of course, is to put THE entire music library, all of it, everyone's, in the cloud and get to it from any device anywhere. Obviously you perceive value in the local storage that the rest of the market does not. Which was one of the points of the linked article. | | |
| ▲ | bryanrasmussen 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >Obviously you perceive value in the local storage that the rest of the market does not. lots of people perceive higher quality media as having value, in fact there are markets for those people, just not the largest market which values convenience more. | | |
| ▲ | pdonis 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > the largest market which values convenience more To me, having my music library on an USB stick is convenience. I don't have to worry about whether my car or something in it has an Internet connection just to listen to music. |
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| ▲ | pdonis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The market winning solution, of course, is to put THE entire music library, all of it, everyone's, in the cloud and get to it from any device anywhere. Not in a free market (which is part of "libertarian ideals", or at least it's supposed to be). In a free market, there is no single "solution"--there are whatever solutions people are willing to pay more than they cost for. If you want your music in the cloud, and you pay for that, and I want my music locally, and I pay for that, that is the libertarian ideal. Trying to own the entire market and force your "solution" on everyone, just because you happen to have enough users to be able to get away with such bullying, at least for a time, is not a free market. But that's what the tech giants are trying to do. > Obviously you perceive value in the local storage that the rest of the market does not. That the majority of the market does not, yes. But I don't think I'm even close to being the only person that doesn't want to depend on "the cloud" for everything I do. |
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| ▲ | wiseowise 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same. I’ll gladly take CDs and DVDs over modern streaming platforms. Before all of this streaming crap music and taste had weight. You find people with the same interests and you share physical medium. No corporation in the world had a power to stop me from giving my copy to another person. Now you either like and pay forever like a good cattle or you hide like a rat from the watchful copyright gods on torrents. |
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| ▲ | bluegatty 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I used to be with you on that ... but getting of my lazy bum to actually pay for Spotify - and looking past all the fair/unfair issues bad/good corporate stuff ... The ability to browse music is very powerful. I lost my 1 Soundgarden CD 20 years ago. Now I can listen to all their albums. You can do the entire Beatles catalogue <- this is a different form of listening. Discover artists I would never have otherwise heard of. It has it's downsides, but I dont think CD was 'better'. We just have an imperfect situation. | | |
| ▲ | AlexandrB 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And the biggest part of the money you pay the streaming platform goes to neither Soundgarden, nor the remaining Beatles, nor to those artists you discovered but to Taylor Swift[1]. This is in stark contrast to how CD economics worked. As someone who spent a lot of his youth carefully avoiding big label acts and trying to support small artists, this is what bothers me the most: there is no way to do that anymore if you use streaming. [1] https://mertbulan.com/2025/08/10/why-paying-for-spotify-most... | | |
| ▲ | bluegatty 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't like how the sausage is made, I just like the sausage, is all I'm saying. | | |
| ▲ | intended an hour ago | parent [-] | | I too, like my meat and not the killing that it requires. One day, someone will have to face the reckoning of our preferences vs our values. May I be the one with the courage to meet it; failing which, not be standing around when the bill is due. The motto of our era. | | |
| ▲ | bluegatty 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think we can have our cake and eat it on this one. The economics line up not entirely unreasonably. Mostly. |
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| ▲ | tempaccount5050 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I've always thought that the hippie environmental types wanting data (music) stored as plastic was ironic. "I prefer my music to be made of petrochemicals and trees, the way it ought to be." I get it, but I still think it's funny. | | |
| ▲ | spinningslate 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Instead of what - vast data centres full of electronics, consuming huge quantities of electricity, controlled by techno-feudalistic megacorps who keep almost all of the money and supply a pittance to the artists? Everything has a cost but those records, CDs and cassettes look like a good deal from here. I still have LPs I inherited from my parents. They still play on my 20 year old turntable. | | |
| ▲ | pibaker 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you think DVDs were manufactured in mom and pop workshops untainted by corporate influence? Quite the opposite actually. Every DVD and DVD drive legally sold had to pay licensing fees! So is blueray! https://www.cnet.com/culture/blu-ray-victory-means-royalties... https://blu-raydisc.info/flla-faq.php > Instead of what - vast data centres full of electronics, consuming huge quantities of electricity, controlled by techno-feudalistic megacorps who keep almost all of the money and supply a pittance to the artists? So what's your alternative, stocking every single video store in the country with plastic discs with DRMs transported by diesel trucks? Do you seriously think the material cost of manufacturing and transporting a disc is less than what it takes to send its contents over the internet? | | |
| ▲ | spinningslate 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, I would like to see a full cost comparison. Transferring one time digitally will no doubt cost (a lot) less than physical manufacture and distribution. But it’s not one time transfer: it’s streaming on demand, every time each person listens to each track, because the economic model is rental not purchase. I use streaming services. I like the flexibility and ubiquity of access. But my favourite music I still buy on cd or vinyl. Why? Because it means I’m not subject to the whims of a megacorp removing access and it means more goes to the artist. I’ve been buying music for 40 years and still listen to some of stuff I bought then. I hope to live long enough to do the same for the music I buy now. |
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| ▲ | tempaccount5050 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, store it on your computer/phone/iPod. But honestly data centers are probably very efficient for this. I'm not going to do the math, but storing data on flash and serving it to billions of people probably is efficient if I had to guess. | | |
| ▲ | spinningslate 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would like to see a full cost comparison. Centralised storage - replicated, distributed and maintained online as necessary - vs media that, once manufactured and distributed, essentially costs nothing to maintain. iPods/phones get replaced much more frequently than LPs/casettes/CDs. And that’s just the resource consumption comparison. There’s then the economic polarisation of wealth to the small handful of online music renters vs distributed ownership (of copies: the original work of art remains with the artist, at least in theory). | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >vs media that, once manufactured and distributed, essentially costs nothing to maintain Eh, not really, it costs it's own storage and care. This is not free even if you have discounted in to the rest of the cost of your life. Not destroying LPs for example is a good bit of work. With music itself, it's electronic storage is insanely cheap. One middleling server could easily contain just about the entirety of all mankinds works. Parallel distribution really is the bigger factor, and I guess that costs almost nothing itself. Marketing and software around marketing likely is the majority of the cost here. Trying to compare a cellphone to a record is just not a really workable thing. People are going to have the cellphone anyway. The fact it is a media player is a welcome bonus. |
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| ▲ | szvsw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not sure why petrochemicals and trees ie hydrocarbons are any more or less absurd than the silicon, metals, etc quarried and mined from around the world needed to store information digitally in data centers (or mobile devices). Storing data of any kind in plastic as opposed to silicon metal seems like a meaningless distinction that only comes about from imagining that there is some disembodied, ethereal and platonic notion of digital “data” which is decoupled from any physical substrate. everything is always materialized and mediated through some complex, and probably vaguely arcane, geologically extractive process in some way. | | |
| ▲ | tempaccount5050 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because a billion people can share the file at once. It's tough math to do, but I can't believe transporting physical media all over the world is really better. |
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| ▲ | mistrial9 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | Tade0 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I recall my tapes sounding ever so slightly worse after each playback. I also once left one too close to my CRT monitor, which erased all the high frequencies from the sound. Also over time friction would build up in the medium, causing the tape to occasionally resist being pulled so strongly that some sections would stretch and introduce a hard to ignore "wah" effect. Overall not my favourite means of storing information, like you said - it was fine. I've listened to a huge palette of mixes made by friends for friends and the social aspect of this is something I appreciated greatly. |
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| ▲ | igor47 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Strong agree. That passage seems to me to be decrying the friction of the real world, whereas it's become increasingly clear to me just how valuable friction is in the world, and how inextricably tied the tech companies war on friction to the bad outcomes technology seems to engender. |
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| ▲ | tclancy 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's a great piece in the current New Yorker about that very thing: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/essay/our-longing-for-inco... "I have a CD player in my home, a VCR in a closet. But I’m also inclined to think about the work that older devices demand of a person compared with the frictionless present day, when we are told that any and all content is at our fingertips (a myth, but a myth that sells.) And I can’t help but think of the reality that there are many significantly larger and more consequential inconveniences that Americans, plainly, do not have the heart or stomach for. One example might be the inconvenience caused by a mass political uprising, one that risks the security, safety, and comfort of its participants. I have seen glimpses of people’s threshold for that level of friction. " |
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| ▲ | IshKebab an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Fine... but it's still better now. I recently went on holiday to deepest darkest Wales where phone signal is intermittent. Trying to locate people and get messages to them was such a bloody pain. I remember thinking in 2003 "surely we should be able to book GP appointments online now", and a mere 20 years later we can (depending on where you live) finally do it. It's so much better. I would not go back, and I don't think anyone else would if it really came down to it, despite any virtuous anti-technology mantras they might pretend to believe. |