They simply want chaos. This distracts from their corruption and authoritarian actions, it enables grift and market manipulation, it worsens conditions in other western countries which benefits them, oil price being high benefits their friend Putin, the list is long and grim.

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grafmax 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It also harms US' Asian allies, which makes them more dependent on US energy, increasing US leverage to push them toward proxy war with China. Very similar to the situation in Europe!

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cosmicgadget 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Can you please describe this proxy war against China. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt but you seem to also be implying that the US made Putin invade Ukraine.

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grafmax 8 hours ago | parent [-]

They didn't make Russia do anything. Russia stated that Ukraine joining NATO would start a war. The US began that process knowing Russia's reaction. Russia did what it said it would do. Years later, Russia has been stuck in a quagmire and Europe has switched to US energy from Russian energy (to its economic detriment), and is preparing to feed itself into the growing proxy war. The US wants the same thing in the Pacific.

	▲	cosmicgadget 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Was Russia invading South Ossetia and Crimea also engineered by the United States to switch Europe to American energy? Or is it more reasonable to just conclude that Russia is expansionist and Ukraine has been seeking the protection of an organization that has never been attacked by a major power? Whatever the case, I'd love to hear your Asian proxy war plan. Japan and Korea vs China?

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uxp100 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I also believe some in the administration want chaos. But also consider that Iran is legitimately hard to negotiate with and the negotiators have no experience with highly technical negotiations around nuclear enrichment. Like, I don’t think Trump wants chaos, actually.

	▲	bayarearefugee 9 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> But also consider that Iran is legitimately hard to negotiate with It is really strange how when you offer to negotiate with the leaders of a country as a pretext to assassinate them... twice... it becomes difficult to negotiate with those who replace them. Nobody could have seen this coming.
	▲	cosmicgadget 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		The thing he wants least of all is to appear to have lost. Unfortunately for many, he thought he could bomb the Iranians into submission.
	▲	Swenrekcah 11 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		I agree Iran must be hard to negotiate with but they haven’t even tried. Obama’s nuclear deal took years of work and involved multiple countries. When Vance didn’t get his way in a single meeting he quit? Also maybe Trump doesn’t want chaos but I doubt he runs the show so much at this point.
	▲	convolvatron 10 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		the entire war was looking really pointless and trump was left looking like a chump. none of the negotiations would let him walk away with anything looking like a win. a resumption of hostilities at least paints the illusion of progress towards..something
	▲	yongjik 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		I wonder how much what Trump wants matters any more w.r.t. Iran. Trump kicked a hornets' nest. Now it's the hornets' turn to decide when (or if) they'll let him walk away. I mean, what's Trump going to do? Murder Iranian leaders harder?
	▲	behole 11 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Anything to obfuscate the Trump-Epstien Files™ Chaos is trumps baseline.