| ▲ | nozzlegear 4 hours ago |
| > I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. FWIW this book came out in the 1930s, long before "red pilling" was a thing. I've read it before and it's not about manipulating people unless you consider being a genuinely sincere person to be manipulative in some way. It's a good book, if a little outdated, and, if I could summarize it in one glib sentence, its lesson is "If you want people to like you, then be nice to them, be genuine, and show enthusiasm and interest in what they show enthusiasm and interest in." |
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| ▲ | et-al 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I agree with you this was not Dale Carnegie's intent when he wrote the book, but alexmuresan probably takes issue because the "red pilling" crowd have used Carnegie's advice to manipulate people. Personally, salespeople have randomly complimented me and repeated my name over and over, and on the receiving end it weirded me out. So the problem is that in certain situations there is an overarching "what did you want to get out of that person?". Don't be those people. Strike up conversations because you enjoy people and their stories. |
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| ▲ | ChoosesBarbecue 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Part of Cialdini’s large book-buying audience came because, like me, it wanted to learn how to become less often tricked by salesmen and circumstances. However, as an outcome not sought by Cialdini, who is a profoundly ethical man, a huge number of his books were bought by salesmen who wanted to learn how to become more effective in misleading customers. (Poor Charlie's Almanack, Charlie Munger) | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, the problem is that every scammer and salesman uses these techniques also, and if you've run into a few of them, having a complete stranger approach you with the standard Dale Carnegie playbook immediately sets off alarm bells. |
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| ▲ | salynchnew an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If Books Could Kill (which is notoriously against self-help books) did an episode on Dale Carnegie. Even they said that he seemed to be a pretty alright guy who was genuinely nice to people in his personal life, not just in his public persona. |
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| ▲ | planet36 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And "Remember their name". |
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| ▲ | helterskelter an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Hah. I'm ADHD and I used to be terrible about remembering people's names -- like, their names didn't even register and I couldn't tell you what it was 30 seconds later. It wasn't that I didn't care about the person, it was just that their name would never stick. Anyway, I finally made enough people feel bad and embarrassed myself enough that I started compensating and made a point to remember basically everybody's name that I met. The change was really surprising, people notice that sort of thing and they make an effort to return the same kind of energy. My general attitude about people since then has become a lot more positive because I realized that overall, most people really don't need a whole lot of impetus to show their better side, and it's not like it costs me anything to treat somebody with a little more consideration. | | |
| ▲ | alwaysdoit 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I wish the protocol was to introduce your name about 5-15 minutes into the conversation because then I would have some other information to attach it to. When it's the first piece of information I receive I think my brain just doesn't really know where to put it and it gets lost immediately. The "use their name several times in the first conversation" trick is a good workaround for this. | |
| ▲ | GolfPopper 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | As someone with very similar issues with names, how did you start remembering names? | | |
| ▲ | sanswork 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I have a list in reminders called names so when someone tells me their name as soon as I can use my phone without it being impolite I open it up and add a quick note with the names. - neighbour watering lawn Jack, wife Gemma, daughter Jane Then I try to remember it later in the day and confirm with the note. I do that the next couple days and it's locked in and I can delete the note. |
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| ▲ | drivers99 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I remember the book saying something like "a person's name is the most beautiful sound in the world to them." The book may say to say their name back to them (I don't remember right now), but that's not what I took away from it. It reminded me of when people would make fun of my name (first and/or last) or bring up someone famous who has the same first ("Donald Duck") or last name ("are you related Joan Rivers?"), or someone famous who sounds like my first and last name put together (Doc Rivers), and I never thought it was funny. When I see people make fun of other people's names, the recipient never seemed to enjoy it either. | | |
| ▲ | xp84 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You’re for sure right about the name thing. It’s so hard to resist commenting on names for a lot of people, I think, due to the extreme asymmetry of novelty. When you meet someone named Michael Jackson, that’s such novel information to you: “there’s a guy right here in front of me who is named the same thing as a famous musician!” Meanwhile, from Michael’s perspective, they’ve been named Michael Jackson and getting comments and jokes about it near-daily for 35 years - and it’s really a boring non-story - they’re named after their grandfather, their parents didn’t care about the other Michael Jackson one way or the other, and they themselves also neither like or hate MJ. | | | |
| ▲ | smelendez 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, you also have to remember that someone has heard every possible joke about their name and their appearance a million times. I do think Dale Carnegie overemphasizes the importance of saying people's names, and in fact saying people's names in conversation often sounds forced and manipulative, but maybe that's just a cultural shift over the past century. | |
| ▲ | cgag 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don’t have any problem with my name, and it feels manipulative and overfamiliar and I assume someone’s trying to Carnegie me into something if they use it. Doc Rivers is an awesome name though. | |
| ▲ | 98codes 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Saying someone's name back to them is also a memory trick to help yourself remember their name for next time. |
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| ▲ | chistev 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've not read the book, but how can a book about talking to people (if that's what it is) be a "little outdated"? |
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| ▲ | komali2 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Some of the stories / aphorisms refer to things that just like, don't exist anymore. |
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| ▲ | axus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Mr. Carnegie should update his book with a few sentences about how using LLMs to flatter people is not being genuine. |
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| ▲ | StevePerkins 23 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That would be quite a feat, given that Mr. Carnegie was born in the 1800's and died over 70 years ago. I'm convinced that 99% of the people who criticize or even just talk about that book have never actually read it, and have zero idea what they're talking about. It's just in that Ayn Rand bucket of books that people talk about, because they see other people getting likes and upvotes for it. |
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| ▲ | Scarblac 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That said, it also has all the self help faults. It repeats itself a lot, is full of happy anecdotes that repeat the same thing yet again, and could have fit in a chapter. |