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100ms 2 days ago

> Full stop.

Why people don't edit out obvious sloppification and expect to still have readers left

wewewedxfgdf 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Third line in to the article: "But there’s one result in the benchmarks I keep coming back to."

I hear this sort of thing all the time now on YouTube from media/news personalities:

“And that’s the part nobody seems to be talking about.”

"And here's what keeps me up at night."

“This is where the story gets complicated.”

“Here’s the piece that doesn’t quite fit.”

“And this is where the usual explanation starts to break down.”

“Here’s what I can’t stop thinking about.”

“The part that should worry us is not the obvious one.”

“And that’s where the real problem begins.”

“But the more interesting question is the one no one is asking.”

“And this is where things stop being simple.”

It doesn't really worry me but I think its interesting that LLM speak sounds so distinctive, and how willing these media personalities are to be so obvious in reading out on TV what the LLM spat out.

I've never studied what LLMs say in depth is it is interesting that my brain recognises the speech pattern so easily.

frereubu 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I think this kind of language predates widespread LLM use, and has been picked up from that kind of writing. It's a "and here's where it gets interesting" pattern that people like Malcolm Gladwell and Freakonomics have used, even if the same thing could be said in a way that makes it sound much less intriguing.

cwillu 2 days ago | parent [-]

There's even a word for it: “cliché”

someguyiguess 2 days ago | parent [-]

How banal

cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent [-]

10 EASY WAYS TO SPOT A LLM~ THE 10TH ONE WILL SURPRISE YOU!

jmbwell 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The language of drama and import without meaningful substance. Words statistically likely to be used in a segue, regardless of the preceding or subsequent point. Particularly effective when it seems like you’re getting let in on a secret. Really fatiguing to read

A writing teacher once excoriated me for saying that something was important. “Don’t tell me it’s important, show me, and let me decide, and if you do your job I’ll agree”

I don’t know how a completion can tell when it needs to do this. Mostly so far it doesn’t seem capable

MarsIronPI 2 days ago | parent [-]

Maybe the solution is to cull the bad, cliché writing from the training data.

wewewedxfgdf 2 days ago | parent [-]

You can just instruct the LLM not to write like an LLM.

helsinkiandrew 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't this the format of "hook-driven media" a constant stream of "second-act pivots" - where some new twist is added to a story to re-engage the reader and keep them reading.

BuzzFeed and Upworthy etc pioneered this for web 'news stories', then it got used in linkedin, twitter, and everywhere where views are more important than the content.

MarsIronPI 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ugh, you're making me remember the last time I listened to NPR. It's so bad.

stuff4ben 2 days ago | parent [-]

I listen to NPR daily and I don't think I've ever heard any of them use that phrasing.

bambax 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I notice this very often in LinkedIn posts, and it's annoying, but I had not realized it was LLM-speak? Isn't it possible that people write like this naturally?

wewewedxfgdf 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I think LLM's have that sort of "summarise, wrap it in a bow tie, give a little dramatic punch as a preview to the next few points".

cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent [-]

Guys, LLMs are build on all these social cues which were developed pre-model. There's atleast 10 years of pre-llm gibberish.

This is to say: Marketers and spammers repeat the same things over and over, and these models are build on coalescing repetition into the basis.

So yeah, of course people talked like this before, but it was always in some known context like linked in or a spam website.

fwip 2 days ago | parent [-]

Sure, but RLHF ended up emphasizing this to a level beyond normal human writing.

spicyusername 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Arguably it's exactly because it was used naturally so often that the LLMs parrot it so frequently.

trvz 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. Some people are very trigger happy in attributing human slop to LLMs.

steveharing1 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

nwatson 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nate B Jones videos ... YouTube channel "AI News and Strategy Daily" channel uses all of these. Every video.

bityard 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I listened to a lot of NPR podcasts before LLM were around, and most of them are full of these kinds of filler phrases.

riknos314 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The general concept of a hook with delayed payoff is far from new, and generally one of the better ways at keeping attention.

It's also exactly the Mr beast playbook, and got him to the largest channel on YouTube.

Any system attempting to capture human attention will use these techniques, nothing LLM-specific here at all.

Lerc 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Apparently John Oliver was an LLM before they were even invented.

cbg0 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So are we saying it's fine that the article is written by an LLM as long as it doesn't have the tell-tale signs of LLMs?

ramon156 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's more about curating the things you're publishing. Why would I bother reading what you couldn't bother to read?

alienbaby 2 days ago | parent [-]

They could easily have read it, and thought , that communicates the information that it needs to.

No point creating busywork for yourself just shuffling words around when the information is there, no?

I guess it depends on what you want out of the article. Substance, or style?

lelanthran 2 days ago | parent [-]

> They could easily have read it, and thought , that communicates the information that it needs to.

I'd they aren't self-aware enough or smart enough to determine that what they wrote is indistinguishable from text generation, how probable is it that they have something of value to add to any thought?

100ms 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't really see reason to complain about tool use, so long as the result is cohesive, accurate and that ultimately means a human has at least read their own output before publishing. It's a bit like receiving a supposedly personal letter that starts "Dear [INSERT_FIRST_NAME_FIELD]," are you really going to read such a thing?

HighGoldstein 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An article without telltale signs of an LLM is indistinguishable from an article written by a human, so yes.

spicyusername 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

My opinion is that literature and art will continue pushing the envelope in the places they always pushed the envelope. LLMs will not change this, humans love making art, and they love doing it in new ways.

Corporate announcements were never the places that literature and art were pushing the envelope. They were slop before, and they're slop now.

crunis 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Are you referring to the literal use of the expression "full stop"? I don't see it anymore in the article, maybe they edited it out?