I'm familiar with those models. They're nowhere near competitive. Miles away from Mistral or (obviously) Chinese models.

> (haven't tested it, but maybe it is also good)

I have. It is not.

they should ask unsloth to follow them. For my usecases locally w/128GB, Qwen3.5-Coder-Next is SOTA.

Without Google’s funding its not obvious i DeepMind would have went anywhere.

Unless the moved to US for funding while keeping a back office in the UK.

It’s strange to expect anything significant to come out from Europe when VCs there are either very risk averse and/or don’t have enough cash to begin with. It’s not like government or EU funding can replace that since its almost always wasted or missdirected

80 percent as good for 20 percent the cost.

Yes, but it would seem that Chinese models are much more efficiently trained than the US ones, (i.e. with fewer resources).

Europe doesn't invest nowhere near as much as the US does into tech, so we need to either figure out how to be at least as, and hopefully more, efficient as the Chinese models are (at least in terms of training) or there's little point in trying.

I suspect this is one of the reasons why Mistral's models are somewhat struggling; i.e. US style training costs, but nowhere near as much cash as OpenAI/Anthopic have.

There are multiple European Google alternatives as well for example, but being 80% as good just doesn't cut it. Chinese models win because they are 95-98% as good as the SotA US ones but at a fraction of the cost.

2 businesses working to get money from the same customers in the same field is competition. Kellogs is competing with store brand cereal. People are choosing to use these Chinese AI apis because they are good enough for some workflows and cheaper. If they didn't exist, the money would go to the frontier labs. There is no world where this would not be defined as competition.

I find it funny how people don't realize the technical achievements and papers coming out of deepseek or Alibaba. They are making this whole AI thing sustainable and cheap and available to do at home. That's the future. I should be able to run my own harness and model and never bother with openai or anthropic at all.

> China is not competing, it is distilling US models

China are cheating by using data obtained without permission to train their models in an evil commie way!

They should have done what the US did instead and trained models on data obtained without permission in a fair and freedum way!

> Where are the Chinese models that are blowing US ones out of the water?

Kimi2 blows every US model out of the water in any comparison that includes both costs and performance.

> China is not competing, it is distilling US models.

I think you should check your notes. The likes of Kimi K2 thinking shows up as high as the second best general purpose model currently in existence. It seems they compete just fine.

If you believe "distilling" is all it takes to put together a model at the top of any synthetic benchmark then I wonder what you would have to say about all US models that greatly underperform in comparison and still manage to be used extensively in professional settings.

But your argument is an emotional one and not rarional, isn't it?

Theft is quite a slippery slope argument not in your favor in the context of US based LLMs and how/what they were trained on..

Ah yes, like those EUV machines America and China have worked on.

I would rather support Chinese tech companies then American ones who write manifestos, bomb children, praise wwii Germany, can't stay online, are publicly making weapons for wars I don't support, etc.

Chinese AI companies are just trying to make money. They are also publicly contributing to forward the field. We all get to decide, but claiming deepseek is involved in genocide is beyond a stretch. Claiming anthropic and chatgpt are... Actually not so much given the president was threatening it and enabling it with an ally...