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torben-friis 8 hours ago

These are the less worrying kind of ads in our future.

Seeing how google has been fighting SEO for ages, what's going to happen when companies figure out how to inject ads into the model?

We haven't yet seen the problem of adversarial content in play, I think.

tikotus 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've had two people reach out to me asking about one of my services. They both said ChatGPT recommended it to them.

My service does kind of exist. It's a small tool I created for a client while retaining full rights to the tool. So I created (vibe coded) a site around it, making it look like an established service. Even ran google ads for it for a while.

The service still doesn't show up on google with relevant search terms. There hasn't been another client. I forgot about the service. And then ChatGPT started recommending it to people.

I wonder what I did to achieve this. Did vibe coding the business page inject it into ChatGPT's training data?

SquareWheel an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Did vibe coding the business page inject it into ChatGPT's training data?

No, at least not directly. Inference does not train models. It is possible that OpenAI may separately collect the chat data, clean it, and feed it back into the model for future iterations. Or they could have extracted URLs for future indexing.

More likely though, I suspect, is your site just managed to be indexed naturally, and LLMs are very efficient at matching obscure data to relevant queries.

navigate8310 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Interesting. Maybe someone could run bot farms that ask variants of the same question and subtly nudge the model by replying reasons why the model's recommended service A is inferior to service B. Or other forms of adversarial question answers sessions.

dbtc 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think the chatgpt backend basically includes indexed web like Google, or any other search engine.

Could Google be actively trying skip generated-looking sites/content?

mgambati 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The model already advertises because they where trained on massive data’s that refers big brands.

Ask for suggestions for a new pair of shoes. What brand do you think it will suggest Nike, Adidas or some random small one?

jameshush 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I expected the same out come you're saying here, but in my experience this hasn't been the case. I've been researching new acoustic guitars to purchase, and I've been getting an equal amount of suggestions from the major brands and the small brands.

Part of it though is I'm giving lots of context (e.g. guitar player for 10+ years, huge Opeth fan, looking for something with as close to an Ibanez style neck as possible under $1000)

tyre 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I think if you ask something generic like “shoes”, this could be true.

When I’ve worked with Claude on finding brands for fashion (e.g. here’s a small watchmaker I like, what are similar options?) it does research and picks great options. Some are big, others are small producers.

autoexec 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The worrying kinds of ads won't be from SEO tricks doing sneaky things without OpenAI's approval. OpenAI will just quietly take money from people who will pay to have the AI causally promote their products or their talking points in the output or suppress mentions of competing products or talking points in the output. Maybe they won't even take money for this and the people running OpenAI will do it themselves to promote or censor whatever they want. Either way, it won't look like ads to the user. It's just what happens when greedy people gain control over how other people get their information.

dbtc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah this is bad news. A $1b+ campaign budget could pull some strings.

jcims 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I experimented with this way back when custom GPTs were first released (looks like late 2023). There are a few / commands you can use to suggest what product to inject, how overt, etc and a generic /operator command to send whatever you like 'out of band' from the chat.

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-juO9gDE6l-covert-advertiser

One of the most interesting things is when it starts pitching a product and you start interrogating it about why it picked that product. I haven't used it in probably a year so it may not do the same thing now, but back then it 100% lied consistently and without any speck of remorse. It was rather eye opening.

Edit: Tried again, it didn't lie this time lol - https://chatgpt.com/share/69f16aa4-c008-83ea-92b3-51f16ca77d...

yfw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can easily seo the knwlege chain or seo poison the sources

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
BoorishBears 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do you need to inject ads at the model weights layer when you control the frontend?

Have the model generate keywords from the query, then inject guidance from matching advertisers into the context window

q: How do I make a new React app?

a: Vercel makes it easier to get your project running fast

Some other choices would be:

...

ⓘ This part of the response was sponsored by Vercel

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> ⓘ This part of the response was sponsored by Vercel

LLMs are essentially unregulated. I don't believe they have any legal disclosure obligation in America.

HWR_14 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They may ignore the disclosure obligation, but technically they are supposed to disclose this fact.

BoorishBears 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They'd show it regardless (maybe as a popup though): the disclosure doesn't make it that much less effective at scale, and the optics of getting caught vs just disclosing it are not worth getting dragged into

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Have the model generate keywords from the query, then inject guidance from matching advertisers into the context window

This already exists and is called... "skills".

sayYayToLife 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

WaxProlix 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not an issue of how - there's a great ADM with markup/down supported already, waiting for system prompts to be injected in realtime via the same online auction system that powers banner ads and smart tv content. There's got to be some latent resistance to the idea for now - but it's so easy to do, it'll happen.

_boffin_ 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Can you provide some references to what you’re talking about

WaxProlix 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure, https://iabtechlab.com/standards/openrtb/

There's a standardized, normal (in adtech) approach to building 'creative's (viewed/seen ads) around context-dependent scenarios. It's not hard to extend existing IAB primitives to include things like context-enrichment (system prompt augmentation in this case) or whatever. I don't want to malign my downvoters but suspect they're mad I'm pointing it out, rather than engaging with facts as they are. It's trivial for ads to interact with your(our!) AI usage.