| ▲ | delichon 12 hours ago |
| Unmarked no-fly zones at unannounced times and locations are a remarkable innovation. Hopefully they will tell you when and where you shouldn't have been when they charge you for it, but that may be classified. |
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| ▲ | hn_throwaway_99 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Ambiguous laws (which in this case are by definition impossible to comply with) which are capriciously enforced are a hallmark of authoritarian and fascist regimes. Sadly ironic, the US government used to highlight this fact: "Authoritarian regimes’ unclear laws make anyone a suspect" - https://ge.usembassy.gov/authoritarian-regimes-unclear-laws-... |
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| ▲ | throw0101a 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | “For my friends everything, for my enemies the law.” ― Oscar R. Benavides, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_R._Benavides | |
| ▲ | geoduck14 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Of note, the article seems to mention 3 things:
1) Vague laws
2) Arbitrary Enforcement
3) Lack of due process All three seem to be important facts for an Authoritarian Regieme I point this out, because I believe the US has long had vague laws, and our Due Process helps kick out arbitrary enforcement. I also believe that our Checks and Balance system (part of Due Process) is currently broken | | |
| ▲ | pigpag 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Given the astronomically high legal cost to individuals, the sheer presence of arbitrary enforcement can already cause a lot of fear and damage. | | |
| ▲ | 3eb7988a1663 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | There was a recent high profile of a case where a woman in Tennessee was accused of a crime in North Dakota. She spent months in jail, where she lost her car, home, and her dog. She was not even in the right state, and her life was destroyed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47563384 | | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | And this is the norm that prosecutors/defense attorneys have been OK with. It's just in this case AI added enough of a twist to gain public interest. It's like the sudden concern with shipping ICE detainees to play 'jurisdiction' and 'standing' games. This has been going on forever and isn't novel, it's just suddenly defense attorneys care because of the immigration/deportation angle instead of just someone losing their home, job, car, life. Our system of 'checks and balances' doesn't work when prosecutors/defense attorneys are indifferent to this kind of life destroying consequence simply from an accusation. If they are apathetic to this, what other injustices in the judicial system are all of the lawyers apathetic to? |
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| ▲ | chneu 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Vague laws were/are a hallmark of racist American law enforcement. It's what the US has always done. |
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| ▲ | terbo 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Reminds me of this: "They devise laws that are broad and vague, but then they apply them like a scapel against those that they deem a threat" - William Dobson | |
| ▲ | firefax 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If laws are ambiguous, governments run the risk folks will conclude they'll get in trouble no matter how diligently they try to suss out the spirit of said laws. When combined with a comical inability to secure government systems, it's honestly super cute that any federal agency thinks engaging in such dark patterns is in any way, shape, or form going to achieve their goals. | | |
| ▲ | collingreen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If the goal is chilling dissent, then it sounds like it would be working perfectly. Your point only holds if the government is trying to act fairly on behalf of the people and actively uphold justice. | |
| ▲ | idle_zealot 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > If laws are ambiguous, governments run the risk folks will conclude they'll get in trouble no matter how diligently they try to suss out the spirit of said laws Well, yeah, but that's the goal. People will correctly conclude that their ability to act unmolested is entirely contingent upon remaining in the good graces of local and remote authority figures. This produces extreme chilling on dissent or disagreement and promotes deals, bribes, and bootlicking. The law is transformed into a transparent legitimization mechanism for what the powerful wanted to do anyway, applied and ignored according to the real power structure adjacent to the legal bureaucracy. This is the default state of human civilization when the rule of law is not proactively defended. | | |
| ▲ | firefax 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | But to "chill dissent", you must be capable of tracking it down before it hangs you from a gas station. I don't think you're fully grasping how sudden and forceful change could come if just small number of folks decided to stop giving a fuck about the spirit of the law and do whatever they feel they can get away with. In my experience, folks from a legal/court context who think they can get cute playing the "you can't prove I broke the rules" game will literally void their bowels in fear when the same is done to them by just one skilled hacker, let alone a group of them all focused on a singular task. |
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| ▲ | thwarted 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | being specific is the essence of lawmaking and the whole difference between having a Congress and having a mom ~ P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores" | |
| ▲ | juggina 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For whatever it’s worth, I don’t think these rules would stand under the APA. Which means any criminal convictions would be thrown out. |
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| ▲ | digitalPhonix an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Losing your licence and many fines are FAA administrative processes so they don’t care. No courts involved. | |
| ▲ | mathisfun123 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Which means any criminal convictions would be thrown out. and in the meantime people rot in jail but i guess no harm no foul :shrug: | | |
| ▲ | ternaryoperator 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not to mention the monetary costs of defense | | |
| ▲ | defrost 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Against all that it seems miserly to complain about the costs of destroyed, seized, lost drones, equipment, gates, doors et al that will never be reimbursed. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > in the meantime people rot in jail but i guess no harm no foul Nobody claimed no foul. Constraining a problem isn't the same as saying it's not one. |
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| ▲ | duxup 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Heck if they do tell you, ICE swaps plates and tries to hide in various ways. The evidence could be just some regular looking vehicle you can't find anything about and it's just "trust me bro those were feds" and you're out of luck. |
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| ▲ | solid_fuel 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Before you know it, they'll be detaining people without legal representation, shipping them to overseas black sites, and murdering citizens in the street. Oh, wait that's been the entirety of this treasonous administration. |
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| ▲ | t-3 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Oh, wait that's been the entirety of this treasonous administration. That's been the case for at least 25 years. Still bad, but not new or unique to Trump. I'm too young to have a good idea of what the pre-Patriot Act American military/intelligence/secret police was like, but the historical stuff that comes to light from time to time doesn't lend much confidence that they were all that much better - they just did it illegally and ashamedly whereas now it's quasi-legal and fully acceptable. | | |
| ▲ | solid_fuel 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | "The authoritarianism is getting worse and more accepted" is not a great response here. | | |
| ▲ | t-3 an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's the truth. Would you prefer I lie and tell you everything will be okay after Trump? |
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| ▲ | cindyllm 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | helterskelter 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Up next, secret interpretations of laws to do things with zero accountability or public overaight. Oh wait we already have that. |
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| ▲ | atoav 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Congratulations you found the key to fascism: Create vague laws that could apply to anyone, then you can pick the people who broke it. Of course you try to only pick your enemies. Only: the person in charge of that decision is the meanest, most stupid idiot you have ever met and they envy you for your wife and want to live in your house once you have been dispossessed. The brother of my grandfather was in jail in Germany during WWII because he offended the original Nazis. He said what roughly translates to: "Nazis are all just dumb plebs." And the thing is, he was right. |
