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Slow_Hand 4 hours ago

As a cyclist and a driver it’s not immediately apparent which Waymo behavior I prefer for passenger dropoffs/pickups.

While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it. However, having a Waymo dropping off clear of the bike lane sounds good, until the exiting passenger accidentally doors a cyclist who isn’t prepared for that possibility.

I suppose I’d rather suffer the inconvenience of going around a parked car than risk the devastation of being doored.

II2II 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it.

Personally, I'm fine with it too. Problem is, a lot of motorists are not fine with that. Whether I get stuck on the road because the bike lane is curb separated or because there is an excessive number of cars parked in the bike lane, motorists start screaming at me. A few months back, I had one aggressively pass me. I checked to ensure the road was clear before entering it, the only way they could have passed me in that manner is if they accelerated (i.e. they created an issue out of something that shouldn't have impacted them).

The sense of entitlement of some motorists is dangerous. They are willing to behave in a manner that puts people's lives at risk.

scarmig 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One thing we should be happy about: Waymo's next gen Zeekr cars have sliding doors, eliminating the traditional risk of dooring. Passengers might still jump out without paying attention, but my expectation is that they'll be more cautious than opening the door; cyclists will have more forewarning than an opening door; and even if they do get hit, it will be a less catastrophic accident if a collision does occur. (The tradeoff, as there are always tradeoffs, is that the passenger having more skin in the game means that they'll likely be physically hit more often.)

avidiax 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can get doored on either side of the car, and when you are forced to pass, you have to enter the traffic lane, which pressures you to maintain speed.

Whereas in the bike lane, you can slow down a bit anticipating that a door may open.

Waymo does at least warn the occupants if there's a vehicle or bicycle approaching.

Saline9515 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It is well known that by stopping, the cyclist will burn and be consumed in flammes in mere seconds.

expedition32 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why should cyclists be inconvenienced by taxis? They have just as much right to get to their destination.

Saline9515 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Because taxis and cyclists are road users like others, car drivers also have to stop if a taxi has to drop off someone as long as it's quick. Same with buses, also. Or trams.

It's the same with pedestrians : if an old person walks on a small sidewalk, I will stop or slow down. Or if I see two guys carrying a washing machine.

As a pedestrian, I don't see cyclists stopping often when they ride on the sidewalk, though.

Benji_San 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree here that it can depend on the infrastructure which option is better. But one way to look at it is that if a car is parked in the bike lane then the bike will be in the car lane == more risk for the bike. The bike is also at risk for being doored from either side when passing the taxi.

The best option would actually be to have some indicators on the taxi which shows which doors are "hot" and expected to open. A taxi with closed doors is always a huge risk and will always need to be passed outside the dooring range.

daemonologist 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Going around a parked car is not merely an inconvenience, it introduces an extra risk of being hit from behind (obviously you should check over your shoulder before moving into the lane, but this is the imperfect real world, and even the act of checking over your shoulder is a small risk) or by a vehicle pulling out of a cross street which didn't see you through the stopped car.

However I agree that there isn't an obvious solution without making major improvements to infrastructure - right now where the bike lane is just paint everyone parks in it (Uber, taxis, delivery drivers, etc.).

Saline9515 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's also possible to use a feature that is present on the bikes, even if rarely or never used by urban cyclists: braking and waiting for the passenger to drop off, before continuing for your destination.

Something car drivers and pedestrians do, usually.

crazygringo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No. Going around a parked car is a basic ability you need to have as a cyclist.

If you can't do that safely, then you have no business riding in the first place.

Looking behind you is not optional, as you seem to suggest it is. And if it is actually a "small risk", then you are going way too fast.

Again -- if you don't have the environmental awareness to go around a parked car, then you shouldn't be riding a bicycle in the first place. Full stop.

defrost 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This comment assumes a high mix of cars and bikes in an environment of unseparated traffic.

With literal decades of near daily bike riding behind me I've rarely had to maneuver a bike or a car around a parked car in regular (not US) traffic flow.

crazygringo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It doesn't matter how often you have to do it. It's still a basic ability you need to possess.

And yes, my own experience comes from Manhattan, where that's something pretty much everyone has to do on a daily basis. You've got double-parking everywhere.

But even if you don't need to often (lucky you), the idea that this is somehow something unusually unsafe just doesn't hold any water. If it's unsafe for you, you have no business being on the road. You are a danger to others if you are unable to look behind you when changing lanes.

jlebar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> having a Waymo dropping off clear of the bike lane sounds good, until the exiting passenger accidentally doors a cyclist who isn’t prepared for that possibility.

Note that Waymos will alert you if a cyclist is approaching so you don't door them. Not saying it's perfect, you can still open the door if you want, but they are very consistent about this.

tmnvix 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Except for the example in the article where the warning failed and an exiting passenger doored a cyclist resulting in brain injury.

skybrian 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For a Waymo unloading passengers, it seems like stopping and waiting would be safest?

curiousgal 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Even if you go around the parked car, you still risk getting doored on the other side.