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userbinator 12 hours ago

The LLM took an entirely different route, using a formula that was well known in related parts of math, but which no one had thought to apply to this type of question.

Of course LLMs are still absolutely useless at actual maths computation, but I think this is one area where AI can excel --- the ability to combine many sources of knowledge and synthesise, may sometimes yield very useful results.

Also reminds me of the old saying, "a broken clock is right twice a day."

jaggederest 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

    > Every Mathematician Has Only a Few Tricks
    > 
    > A long time ago an older and well-known number theorist made some disparaging remarks about Paul Erdös’s work.
    > You admire Erdös’s contributions to mathematics as much as I do,
    > and I felt annoyed when the older mathematician flatly and definitively stated
    > that all of Erdös’s work could be “reduced” to a few tricks which Erdös repeatedly relied on in his proofs.
    > What the number theorist did not realize is that other mathematicians, even the very best,
    > also rely on a few tricks which they use over and over.
    > Take Hilbert. The second volume of Hilbert’s collected papers contains Hilbert’s papers in invariant theory.
    > I have made a point of reading some of these papers with care.
    > It is sad to note that some of Hilbert’s beautiful results have been completely forgotten.
    > But on reading the proofs of Hilbert’s striking and deep theorems in invariant theory,
    > it was surprising to verify that Hilbert’s proofs relied on the same few tricks.
    > Even Hilbert had only a few tricks!
    > 
    > - Gian-Carlo Rota - "Ten Lessons I Wish I Had Been Taught"
https://www.ams.org/notices/199701/comm-rota.pdf
yayachiken 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I think when thinking about progress as a society, people need to internalize better that we all without exception are on this world for the first time.

We may have collectively filled libraries full of books, and created yottabytes of digital data, but in the end to create something novel somebody has to read and understand all of this stuff. Obviously this is not possible. Read one book per day from birth to death and you still only get to consume like 80*365=29200 books in the best case, from the millions upon millions of books that have been written.

So these "few tricks" are the accumulation of a lifetime of mathematical training, the culmination of the slice of knowledge that the respective mathematician immersed themselves into. To discover new math and become famous you need both the talent and skill to apply your knowledge in novel ways, but also be lucky that you picked a field of math that has novel things with interesting applications to discover plus you picked up the right tools and right mental model that allows you to discover these things.

This does not go for math only, but also for pretty much all other non-trivial fields. There is a reason why history repeats.

And it's actually a compelling argument why AI is still a big deal even though it's at its core a parrot. It's a parrot yes, but compared to a human, it actually was able to ingest the entirety of human knowledge.

smaudet 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> it actually was able to ingest the entirety of human knowledge

Even this, though, is not useful, to us.

It remains true that, a life without struggle, and acheivement, is not really worth living...

So, it is nice that there is something that could possibly ingest the whole of human knowledge, but that is still not useful, to us.

People are still making a hullabaloo about "using AI" in companies, and there was some nonsense about there will be only two types of companies, AI ones and defunct ones, but in truth, there will simply be no companies...

Anyways I'm sure I will get down voted by the sightless lemmings on here...

nopinsight 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> "a broken clock is right twice a day."

The combinatorial nature of trying things randomly means that it would take millennia or longer for light-speed monkeys typing at a keyboard, or GPUs, to solve such a problem without direction.

By now, people should stop dismissing RL-trained reasoning LLMs as stupid, aimless text predictors or combiners. They wouldn’t say the same thing about high-achieving, but non-creative, college students who can only solve hard conventional problems.

Yes, current LLMs likely still lack some major aspects of intelligence. They probably wouldn’t be able to come up with general relativity on their own with only training data up to 1905.

Neither did the vast majority of physicists back then.

amazingman 10 hours ago | parent [-]

> Yes, current LLMs likely still lack some major aspects of intelligence.

Indeed, and so do current humans! And just like LLMs, humans are bad at keeping this fact in view.

On a more serious note, we're going to have a hard time until we can psychologically decouple the concepts of intelligence and consciousness. Like, an existentially hard time.

y0eswddl 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, they're great at interpolation - they'll just never be worth much at extrapolation.

SR2Z 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Luckily for us, whole fortunes can be made by filling in the blanks between what we know and what we realize.

javawizard 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That deserves to be on a plaque somewhere.

I've been using LLMs for much the same purpose: solving problems within my field of expertise where the limiting factor is not intelligence per se, but the ability to connect the right dots from among a vast corpus of knowledge that I would never realistically be able to imbibe and remember over the course of a lifetime.

Once the dots are connected, I can verify the solutions and/or extend them in creative ways with comparatively little effort.

It really is incredible what otherwise intractable problems have become solvable as a result.

dalyons 9 hours ago | parent [-]

What’s your field

speed_spread 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Paint by numbers

jedmeyers 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And by having more of those blanks filled humans might be able to come up with much better extrapolations than what we have right now.

drdeca 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People keep saying this, but the only ways I know of for formalizing this statement, appear to be probably false?

I don’t know what this claim is supposed to mean.

If it isn’t supposed to have a precise technical meaning, why is it using the word “interpolate”?

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heresie-dabord 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> "a broken clock is right twice a day"

and homo sapiens, glancing at the clock when it happens to be right, may conjure an entire zodiac to explain it.

red75prime 6 hours ago | parent [-]

And homo sapiens, glancing at a system that gets better and better at solving problems, tries to deny it and comes up with the broken-clock analogy.

nandomrumber 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A stopped clock.

A broken clock can be broken in ways which result in it never being correct.

fragmede 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Those are just analog. If it's a broken digital clock, then all bets are off.

tptacek 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wait, what do you mean "LLMs are still absolutely useless at actual maths computation"? I rely on them constantly for maths (linear algebra, multivariable calc, stat) --- literally thousands of problems run through GPT5 over the last 12 months, and to my recollection zero failures. But maybe you're thinking of something more specific?

schneems 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They are bad at math. But they are good at writing code and as an optimization some providers have it secretly write code to answer the problem, run it and give you the answer without telling you what it did in the middle part.

avaer 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Someone should tell the mathematicians if they use a calculator or a whiteboard or heavens forbid a computer they are "bad at math".

8 hours ago | parent [-]
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tptacek 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What would I do to demonstrate that they are bad at math? If by "maths" we mean things like working out a double integral for a joint probability problem, or anything simpler than that, GPT5 has been flawless.

tempaccount5050 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Are they bad at math? Or are they bad at arithmetic?

lacunary 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

if you don't know much math, it's easy to confuse the two

tptacek 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Neither.

jasonfarnon 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What tier are you using? I have run lots of problems and am very impressed, but I find stupid errors a lot more frequently than that, e.g., arithmetic errors buried in a derivation or a bad definition, say 1/15 times. I would love to get zero failures out of thousands of (what sounds like college-level math) posed problems.

tptacek 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I have a standard OpenAI/ChatGPT Pro account; GPT5 is my daily driver for math, and Claude for code.

cuttothechase 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

calc, stat etc from a text book is something they would naturally be good at but I don't think book based computations thats in the training set and its extrapolations is what is at question here.

They are not great at playing chess as well - computational as well as analytic.

tptacek 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I think this is wrong and a category error (none of the problems I've given it are in a textbook; they're virtually all randomized), but, try this: just give me a problem to hand off to GPT5, and we'll see how it does.

Further evidence for the faultiness of your claim, if you don't want to take me up on that: I had problems off to GPT5 to check my own answers. None of the dumb mistakes I make or missed opportunities for simplification are in the book, and, again: it's flawless at pointing out those problems, despite being primed with a prompt suggesting I'm pretty sure I have the right answers.

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ButlerianJihad 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I only have rudimentary understanding of calculus, trigonometry, Google Sheets, and astronomy, but I was able to construct an accurate spreadsheet for astrometry calculations by using Grok and Gemini (both free, no subscription, just my personal account) to surface the formulas for measuring the distance between 2-3 points on the celestial sphere. The LLMs assisted me in also writing functions to convert DMS/HMS coordinates to decimal, and work in radians as well.

I found and fixed bugs I wrote into the formulas and spreadsheets, and the LLMs were not my sole reference, but once the LLM mentioned the names of concepts and functions, I used Wikipedia for the general gist of things, and I appreciated the LLMs' relevant explanations that connected these disciplines together.

I did this on March 14, 2026

Drupon 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>I rely on them constantly for maths (linear algebra, multivariable calc, stat)

That's one way to waste a ton of tuition money to just have a clanker do your learning for you.

Unless you're teaching it, in which case I hope your salary is cut by whatever percentage your clanker reduces your workload.

pfdietz 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Perhaps learning how to get AI to solve your problems is the most important lesson to learn now? The rest seems like the current equivalent of learning cursive.

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keyle 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ultimate generalist

karlgkk 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Also just the sheer value of brute force.

80 hours! 80 hours of just trying shit!

FrasiertheLion 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's 80 minutes, not 80 hours.

jasonfarnon 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

and you can be sure mathematicians spent way more than 80 hrs on it

ChrisGreenHeur 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

80 minutes! 80 minutes of just trying shit!

peteforde 11 hours ago | parent [-]

... shit that solved an apparently significant Erdős problem.

That is not nothing, no matter how much you hate AI.

userbinator 11 hours ago | parent [-]

It shows that AI is apparently very good at brute-forcing.

TOMDM 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are the human mathematicians who wanted to solve this problem just too stupid to brute force for 80 minutes?

alex_sf 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This isn't brute force.

userbinator 9 hours ago | parent [-]

It is in the same way that educated guessing is.

userbinator 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Care to actually refute? Interesting that even an LLM would give an attempt at it, but apparently those who only bother to hit the downvote button aren't even meeting that level of "intelligence".

brokencode 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How long do you figure it’d take to solve the problem yourself?

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