>Obviously there's the cognitive dissonance aspect to point out, but we are all doing that to some extent.

Not necessarily. I mean, the people who give out an uncomfortable laugh do exhibit signs of cognitive dissonance.

I don't have an issue with accepting both statements: factory farming is awful, and I still eat meat.

There is no cognitive dissonance.

The logic is straightforward: I do not believe that me, an individual, abstaining from meat is going to do much to factory farming, while it will make a huge, adverse impact on my life.

Government regulation is how this problem would be solved (the only way it can get solved), and I'm all for voting for bans on factory farming, heavy taxes on meat products, etc.

One's gotta pick their battles.

I pick ones where my participation won't amount to martyrdom.

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tapland 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah but tons of things are awful. For me I couldn't keep doing things I knew caused immense suffering in other beings, be it humans or animals. (Sourcing things from ethical whatever and reducing consumption in general the last two decades, I'm sad my iPhone 6 isn't supported for banking so have to go android 10 etc).

Vegetarian options got cheap, and I still eat locally produced eggs and some milk products.

But like, awful can be coped with. Everyone thinks factory farming is awful. Few give a shit.

	▲	Ritewut 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Few people can afford to give a shit. Most people are getting the cheapest meat and dairy they can get from Walmart.

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fwipsy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Basically this boils down to "I don't feel responsible for the meat I eat being factory farmed."

Not that I'm in any position to criticize; I'm in the cognitive dissonance camp.

Have you considered consuming "ethical" animal products (e.g. free range eggs or whatever?) That doesn't seem like martyrdom; compared to what you want (government mandated livestock welfare) it only costs you marginally more (due to missing economies of scale.)

	▲	alterom an hour ago \| parent [-]
		To the extent that I can, I do try to pick ethical products (like the aforementioned free-range eggs). It's not an all-or-nothing thing indeed; there's a huge spectrum between veganism and not at all thinking (or caring) about where the animal products come from. But yes, I, as a consumer, am not responsible for what is already heavily regulated in favor of factory farmers. Heard of the ag gag laws? You can't vegan them away. It's not a free market, see. It's as delusional to blame people for eating the availableunethically produced meat as it is to blame them for starving during the Holodomor (..or Great New Leap, or the Irish Potato Famine, or...). Radium-based snake oil "medicine" didn't disappear because the consumers boycotted an unethical product. It was because we have FDA. I really do not feel responsible for what would amount to trying to enforce regulation that doesn't exist. I am responsible for voting, so when it comes to the ballot, ethical farming does get my vote.

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GolfPopper 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Government regulation is how this problem would be solved (the only way it can get solved)

My cynical inner pedant compels me to point out that societal collapse will also solve "factory farming is awful". And we're probably closer to that than effective government regulation of it.

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nickburns 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Equating eating meat with martyrdom in the year 2026 is, in fact, the same cognitive dissonance you personally deny.

I eat meat. And I'm highly, highly morally conflicted. I'll leave it at that to avoid sounding hypothetical—except to mention that the only logical reason I don't go vegetarian/vegan is the work and personal development that'd be required of me. (I'll take being called lazy over disingenuous any day, if we're ostensibly virtue signaling here.)

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aziaziazi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do what you like and as you like, but my two cents: if you want to make something that seems hard, start with one step and continue step by step at your own peace. Big goals are accomplished by proudness of small gaps instead of shame and desires of the missing ones.

During 10 year I gently removed some ingredients of my diets/habits and added others in the meantime. It was longer but way easier than I imagined.

Good luck, you lazy :-)

	▲	nickburns 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Hey, at my ripe, old age, I only started learning how to properly feed myself more recently than I'd like to admit. So I take your point about acknowledging one's baby steps once you successfully string a few together. Thanks for the encouragement!

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alterom an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

>Equating eating meat with martyrdom in the year 2026 is, in fact, the same cognitive dissonance you personally deny

You completely missed the point.

In the context of picking battles, martyrdom is (self) sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice, with no direct gain for the cause.

Abstaining from meat, to me, will take away one of the not-so-many joys I have in my life, without possibly making a meaningful impact on unethical farming.

I'm well off. You might be. Most people in the US are not.

And in the end of the day, poor people are going to buy the cheapest products in the grocery store.

So, there's always be a demand as long as there's supply.

More than that. We don't really have a choice for where meat comes from anyway. There's no requirement to put that on the label, along with nutritional data.

That, by the way, is another example where legislation can make a lot of difference.

My point is that abstaining from meat is about as useful as that young man setting himself of fire in the US to help children in Gaza.

Same goes about feeling bad about eating meat (while eating it).

The impact on the cause is zero.

Your energy would be better spent fighting the ag-gag laws, requiring disclosures on the labels, making ethically farmed products cheaper (and factory farmed produce more expensive), and so on.

You having morally conflicted feelings doesn't help anyone.

And it's simple, really: you are complicit in doing a bad thing. But the complicity is not in doing the thing, it's in supporting the system where in doing it is the rational choice for the majority of people.

Your choice in doing or not doing the thing has very little impact on whether the thing happens.

	▲	nickburns an hour ago \| parent [-]
		> In the context of picking battles, martyrdom is (self) sacrifice, with no direct gain for the cause. On the first clause, exactly. (The second clause appears to be a bit of ad lib.) > Abstaining from meat, to me, will take away one of the not-so-many joys I have in my life I don't think the concept of 'martyrdom' encompasses self-interest. It does however consider the cause/s of other beings. So I maintain, not a very cognitively consonant use of the term.

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_DeadFred_ 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We used to have more humane farming. We used to have laws against child labor. We now eat pigs, animals smarter than dogs, that lived tortured lives while wearing clothing made by children.

You can easily chose 'not factory farmed' and still eat meat. You just don't. I'm guessing unless you grew up rich or very recently, you consume more meat now than you were accustomed too growing up. In that case you choose to actively benefit from the factory farming.