| ▲ | 9rx 8 hours ago |
| Those buying new don't care about repairs. They were never going to do the warrantee work themselves anyway. Those buying on the used market have more reason to care about repairs, but used buyers are beholden to what new buyers purchased in the past. |
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| ▲ | justonceokay 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Those buying new don't care about repairs. Yes because thy live in the John Deere future. This was not always the case, surely. You used to be able to take high school classes to learn how to fix a combustion engine, even a new one! |
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| ▲ | saalweachter 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Keep in mind that tractors are also getting massive. The economics of row-crop agriculture is "you gotta farm more land". That means spending as much time in the field as you can with as big a machine as you can. So not only is time you spend fixing your tractor yourself time you're not spending on your primary job, it's also working on a machine that's just monstrously huge. Delegating that work to a specialist with specialized tools is a very reasonable way to live. | | |
| ▲ | vablings 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The issue is that the specialized employees is not someone you hire on payroll who has access to tools you purchase. They must be a John Deere employee who comes from out of state and costs you $$$$$$ to calibrate a sensor that could just be a simple menu button and a 20 second wait | | |
| ▲ | greedo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | JD techs are all over the Midwest. No one is coming from out of state to work on your combine. | |
| ▲ | saalweachter 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, sure, right to repair and all that, but to be clear, unless you have like 50+ tractors to maintain, it's not going to make economic sense to have a full time employee to repair them. You still want to call out, you just want the option of calling someone local with more competitive rates and a faster response time. |
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| ▲ | greedo 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly! The old image of a guy on a Deere 4020 pulling an eight row implement is just unsustainable in today's agricultural system. Whether that system is sustainable is a different question. | | |
| ▲ | saalweachter 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Incidentally, the 4020 is like the tractor to me. One of these days I'm going to buy one to restore, the way other men but the cars of their youth. | | |
| ▲ | greedo 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly. A 4020 is fun! It may not have as much torque and ground pressure may not be as good as a quad belt tractor, but for a lil farm where you just want to grow hay or screw around? |
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| ▲ | HeyLaughingBoy 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You still can. My 26-year-old took automotive shop when he was a Junior in HS. Of course, we live in a rural school district... |
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| ▲ | sodapopcan 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Those buying new don't care about repairs. huh, why not? |
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| ▲ | wolttam 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The existence of this startup and their early demand seems to refute your point. |
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| ▲ | quickthrowman 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If I was a farmer and wanted a low-tech tractor that would be reliable into the future, why would I gamble on a startup when I could buy a Kubota tractor from a company that has been in business for 136 years, with an established dealer and parts network? I would certainly opt for the Kubota. I’m not a farmer, but sometimes I sell generators. Even today, some specs only allow CAT and Cummins, even though Generac and Kohler have been around for decades and are perfectly good options, they haven’t been around as long as CAT and Cummins. When purchasing capital equipment, some customers want to buy from a company with some longevity instead of a random startup, even if it costs more. I’m always highly skeptical of startups in mature industries like farming (~10,000 years old, or hundreds of years for mechanized agriculture) with many established players already operating. I saw an article in the last year or two about a small directional boring machine from a startup company that claimed to be advancing the industry, but multiple manufacturers like Ditch Witch already manufacture and sell the exact same piece of equipment, they’re just not claiming to be revolutionary to attract investor capital. | |
| ▲ | 9rx 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What early demand are you seeing, exactly? The article does indicate that they plan to ramp up production in 2026, but no mention of actual sales. It is quite possible that they are increasing production thinking that they need to roll them out to dealer lots to gain any traction. In fact, their TractorHouse profile shows that they are still struggling to sell last year's models. If there was demand, why hasn't that demand already gobbled up the stock? "I guess it would be cool to own one if it was given to me for free" isn't demand. | | |
| ▲ | righthand 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | They need to swing the pendulum back, the current problem is that there is now a whole generation about to take over from the previous and the new gen has never had to use a non-John Deere a tractor. If they could evangelize their product as the “smarter farmer that doesn’t need all that tech” then they might have success. | | |
| ▲ | HeyLaughingBoy 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The problem with your argument is that the smarter farmer does indeed need all that tech if they're expecting high productivity. | |
| ▲ | greedo 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You should know that there are alternatives to green machines; Case, Massey Ferguson, Fendt etc. | | |
| ▲ | saalweachter 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh hey, do you happen to know if there's any tool incompatibility in the modern electronics? The other thing about tractors is that the three point hitches, PTOs, etc etc, have been standardized forever, so there's very little lock in in terms of, swap out your JD for and IH and away you go, so I'm curious if eg modern seed drills have any fancy tech which locks you in. | | |
| ▲ | greedo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The short answer is yes... As you mentioned, the physical side is generally standardized to some degree, but everyone I know tends to just use branded gear that's known to fit. Now if you like to resurrect old gear, then you become a shade tree mechanic pretty quick. I don't think that any farmer will survive more than a few seasons without being pretty smart at just getting stuff to work... | |
| ▲ | 9rx 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > if there's any tool incompatibility in the modern electronics? Technically there are standards, but you know how that goes in the real world... Funnily enough, a friend bought a new tractor and planter, both from John Deere, and they weren't even compatible with each other. The tractor needed to have the cab removed to install the necessary hardware (ethernet) to be compatible with the planter. > have been standardized forever Hydraulic hose couplers didn't find common adoption until the mid-80s/early-90s, which is surprisingly late. | | |
| ▲ | greedo 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I hate when I go to connect something and have to dig around for a hydraulic adapter. If I was smart, I'd just spend the winter making sure everything was matching, but I'm cheap and there's always something else that seems more urgent. |
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| ▲ | righthand 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know but for the sake of timeliness I’m not writing out every tractor company. Further John Deere has led the way on the current state of tractors. |
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| ▲ | 9rx 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The farmer who doesn't want or need tech already buys from the likes of Versatile, Kubota, or maybe even Massey Ferguson if more towards the middle of the road. "Low tech" is already a serviced market. That's not to say there isn't room for another competitor, but there isn't much indication that Ursa is becoming one. When you can't even sell the product you produced last year... The bit in the article about them not wanting to really scale up is telling. It is not like John Deere actually has a monopoly. There is just as much CNH (CaseIH, New Holland) seen out in the fields, and even when you want all the bells and whistles, Fendt is rapidly becoming understood to be the true king of tech. What John Deere does have going for it is that they generally do better than everyone else at keeping parts in stock where the parts are needed; local to the farmer. Ironically, repairability is where John Deere finds the win at the end of the day. |
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| ▲ | cucumber3732842 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's not true for commercial users the way it is for private cars. Even if you have a service contract you're still gonna be pissed at the downtime cost of having a tech drag their ass out to wherever you are to initiate a forced regen or something. |
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| ▲ | idiotsecant 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You're pretty confident for someone who fundamentally does not understand the issue. During harvest season even hours of delay can be disastrous for farms that are barely solvent in the first place. When your only option is to call the dealer and hope and pray they deign to visit your farm in a timely fashion it doesn't matter how good the warranty is or is not. Farmers need to be self sufficient because time is money and money is survival. |
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| ▲ | 9rx 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It may be true that I do not understand whatever nondescript fundamental issue it is that you mention but don't elaborate on, but I most definitely understand the constraints of farming. Being a farmer, I live it each day. And as a farmer who owns equipment from across all the major brands (and some unheard of brands to boot), you are right that John Deere is most reliable for having parts in stock. I've been burned by the others having to wait a week on parts to be delivered from who knows where. That is not a fun position to be in. Repairability is where John Deere has the clear advantage. That is, just as you point out, why they are most popular. Nothing else matters if your equipment doesn't work. You pay a lot more for that luxury, but when the clock is ticking... | |
| ▲ | greedo 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | LOL. If you're a row cropper, you're running a big combine. Several grain trucks. Lots of expensive gear. Gear breaks down, that's why you buy something reliable, that has techs in your area who can fix things quickly, with a parts network that stocks stuff from decades back. Farmers are self-sufficient in incredible ways, but maintaining a multi-million dollar combine is pushing it. They can do oil changes, filter changes, replace consumables on implements, and do basic trouble shooting, but there are limits. And yes, time does matter. That's why farmers tend to help each other out a lot. Field catch fire because you didn't clean off your combine the previous day? It's going to be your neighbor coming out and helping firebreak your field so you lose 5 acres instead of 500. Can't afford to have your own sprayer for fertilizer, etc? You hit up the co-op. And farmers have crop insurance. Doesn't make them whole, but the idea that they're going to be eating dirt if they harvest a day late is silly. |
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