| ▲ | rideontime 4 hours ago |
| Anthropic’s “Head of Growth” claims this is a “test”: https://x.com/TheAmolAvasare/status/2046724659039932830 This does not explain the changes to documentation. |
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| ▲ | simonw 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| They later said: https://twitter.com/TheAmolAvasare/status/204672549859272297... > When we do land on something, if it affects existing subscribers you'll get plenty of notice before anything changes. Will hear it from us, not a screenshot on X or Reddit. If you don't want things like this spreading through screenshots of X and Reddit, don't run "tests" like this in the first place! (Also "if it affects existing subscribers" is a cop-out, I need to know the pricing of Claude Code for NEW subscribers if I'm going to adopt it at a company with a growing team, or recommend it to other people, write tutorials etc.) |
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| ▲ | abtinf 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That tweet only makes things worse. On top of all their other nonsense recently, it actually convinced me to cancel my subscription. I can't trust Anthropic to manage their products in a way that supports my workflow. | | |
| ▲ | trueno 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | pretty much none of these big providers are offering the guarantees needed to be taken seriously in workplaces right now. the technology itself isn't offering the deterministic guarantees that should warrant it in the workplace right now. problem is everyone's foot is just on the gas. even if your workplace isnt paying for it, people are just straight up rolling their own personal claude accounts to do work at orgs. ive been trying to make the case all year that if we're going to let employees do shit with ai, lets try claude. in the past like.. 2-3 weeks all that goodwill has basically evaporated. local inference needs to take off asap because all of these entities actually suck and i wouldn't trust a single sla with anthropic. they are not acting like a serious company right now, this is a joke. | |
| ▲ | kelsey98765431 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I just cancelled before seeing this news. i was already pissed about constantly hitting limits on the 20 a month plan and looking for alternatives and this seals the deal. Bye bye! | | |
| ▲ | anakaine 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I just paid for Pro for the first time 24 hours ago. Its been great, but the limits are crazy. It's nice not dealing with ChatGPTs sycophantic gaslighting, and not having random bugs. That said, I seem to be caught in that 2% test if I open in a private tab. What nonsense. I wouldn't be paying for Claude if it wasn't for its quality abilities, which necessarily includes Claude Code. |
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| ▲ | minimaxir 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A/B tests only work if the subjects don't realize they are in a A/B test. | | |
| ▲ | abtinf 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Perhaps vibe coding the A/B testing engine isn't the best idea. | |
| ▲ | inetknght 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Solution: don't A/B test your users. A/B testing people without their informed consent is immoral, unethical, and should be illegal. | | |
| ▲ | skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To play devil's advocate, without A/B testing a lot of decisions would be made with insufficient relevant data, and lead to subpar results that affect the many negatively form the road. | | |
| ▲ | wat10000 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | A lot of decisions made with A/B testing are also made with insufficient relevant data, but it's less obvious since it's easy to think the A/B results cover everything. |
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| ▲ | shimman 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Agreed and I can't wait until they regulate this stuff out of existence. It's absolutely hostile software technique that is deeply anti-human. | |
| ▲ | vehemenz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Depends entirely on the stakes and whether personal data is involved | | |
| ▲ | inetknght 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Depends entirely on the stakes and whether personal data is involved Sure. Let me just A/B test whether or not you'll respond positively or negatively to having your news delivered via push notification or delayed by 10 minutes. I'm sure you would appreciate being tested on without your consent, just so that I can make an extra quick buck at your expense. Nothing amoral or unethical about it. | | |
| ▲ | pitched 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What do you think about slow rollouts for new features? Like, we think this new push notification system will be loved but let’s ship to only 1% of users in case there’s a horrible unforeseen consequence like occasional 10min delays? Dashboard goes upside down -> revert then work through logs to figure out what the hell went wrong. |
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| ▲ | sally_glance 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe a silly bet where the head of sales had 1-2 glasses of wine too much... "I bet they will still pay us 20 bucks/mo without CC! Don't believe me? I'm going to prove it!" |
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| ▲ | thousand_nights 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > So we're looking at different options to keep delivering a great experience for users. his title should be changed to Head of Corporate Bullshitting |
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| ▲ | ramesh31 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >"his title should be changed to Head of Corporate Bullshitting" They're hitting the physical limits of energy production and chip supply for inference capacity. There's literally nothing that can be done but reduce usage to spread it around for now. | | |
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| ▲ | epenn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Hopefully the negative responses in that thread + the conversation here on HN might help them realize that totally removing Code access for Pro users isn't a good look. And with no free trial period on top of that, nobody is going to want to pay $100+ just to check it out. I can't imagine the conversion rate of that test being positive. |
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| ▲ | Esophagus4 an hour ago | parent [-] | | A few enterprise customers I know are upgrading to the higher plan now that their limits have been nuked. I imagine Anthropic is trying to see how many users they can push to higher tiers with these new squeezes. I hate to say it but I imagine it will work. It’s going to suck for me, because I had gotten used to ridiculously cheap tokens, but I guess the era of subsidized tokens is over. |
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| ▲ | 100ms 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| He goes way beyond saying it's a test, he's legitimising the change in the follow-up rationale |
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| ▲ | maxall4 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > on ~2% of new prosumer signups. I, and everyone else I have asked, see this new updated sales UI; sounds like more than 2%. |
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| ▲ | naet an hour ago | parent [-] | | Yeah I flat out don't believe the 2% thing. It's possible that I was the 1 out of 50 who checked the page and saw that Claude code was removed... but it really seems like everyone I shared it with saw the same thing which is incredibly unlikely. Also I am an existing subscriber and checked the price page while logged in, so I shouldn't be counted in "2% of new subscribers" at all... |
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| ▲ | charliebwrites 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just checked. I continue to have Claude Code with my Pro plan This is concerning though. If I lose my current usage allotment at this price point I will likely switch to codex |
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| ▲ | trashface 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That works until openai does the same thing. Pretty clear as an industry they want to establish a new price floor for non-trivial coding use. | | |
| ▲ | CuriouslyC 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Thank god for the Chinese labs. Keeping us (relatively) honest. | |
| ▲ | mystraline 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yep, and the price point theyre looking at is 95% of an engineer. Once they get people hooked, deskilled, and paying, the money ratchet only tightens. And the companies KNOW that theyre replacing engineers, or trying to. So each engineer replaced is X salary a year they now have available, so make it back in SaaS LLM tokens. |
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| ▲ | xiphias2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's what Claude is testing I guess (people often don't do what they say they do when it comes to pricing) | |
| ▲ | muyuu 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Presumably for new subs. |
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| ▲ | karmasimida 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am confused, how is this a test? So some users get Claude Code while others don’t, when they are both paying 20 dollars … ? Wat |
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| ▲ | nemomarx 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's a test on sign ups, not on users, so "will they sign up without X feature for the same price" yes |
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| ▲ | joecool1029 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Random data point: Guest passes apparently still include Claude Code in their Pro trial. If they are running a test this is a really sloppy way to do it. |
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| ▲ | sriku 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This test would be a good way to lose existing subscribers perhaps. |
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| ▲ | techblueberry 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Presumably they want to lose existing subscribers because it’s way too expensive to keep them at $20. | | |
| ▲ | Esophagus4 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Is it? I’m curious because I thought they were raising prices to pay for exorbitant training costs, not because subscribers are expensive on a unit basis. I thought inference was cheap so there was little marginal cost of a new subscriber. |
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| ▲ | fluidcruft 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How can you run the A/B test with mismatched documentation? |
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| ▲ | dnw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Somehow a ton of people are caught in the variant. |
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| ▲ | applfanboysbgon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It is honestly truly fucking incredible how corps still find new, innovative ways to enshittify. Regular enshittification won't cut it, they have to exercise their artistic creativity. Who the fuck comes up with the idea that what services you get with your subscription are random? It's mind-boggling that some percentage of people visiting the website will be presented with an inferior version of the same subscription for the same price. I'm not even mad (despite my colorful wording), I don't use Claude, just impressed with the bold new territory being explored here. |
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| ▲ | amarcheschi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Claude subscription became non deterministic too | | |
| ▲ | jrgd 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I find the whole thing a bit sad but you made me smile.
Thank you. |
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| ▲ | dreamcompiler 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think of enshittification as "we're making plenty of money but let's make more." In other words greed. Based on how much money Zitron has reported that these companies are losing on every subscription, this feels more like they're just trying to survive. In other words "ohshittification." | | |
| ▲ | adriand an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > In other words "ohshittification." Brilliant coinage, if it’s yours, congrats! My take: it is not enshittification to raise the price for a product whose demand outstrips its supply. That is basic economics. There are alternatives, it’s not a monopoly. If you think it’s the best product, then pay more for it. Personally I would be perfectly content if the price of Max went up a bit and Pro no longer worked for CC if it meant that Max was faster and more stable. | |
| ▲ | selectodude 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Zitron is completely full of shit too though. I imagine they’re compute limited and so they’re moving towards price discrimination. |
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| ▲ | parineum 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It is honestly truly fucking incredible how corps still find new, innovative ways to enshittify. Regular enshittification won't cut it, they have to exercise their artistic creativity. I had a bit of an epiphany the other day thinking about these VC companies offering products to the public at unsustainable prices. It's classic anticompetitive behavior. You imagine anticompetitive behavior to come from a monopoly because they can afford to burn money to drive competition out before they bring prices back to profitable but the whole VC burn is the same thing. People talk about it a lot without really saying it explicitly when they talk about moats. The only moat Anthropic and OpenAI have is money and they utilize it by offering products below cost. The two companies are just trying to outlast the other one until they are the only one left. So it's not really enshitification as much as you were previously getting the deal of a lifetime. | | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In physical markets we call this kinda thing dumping and it's often regulated. Maybe offering SaaS or compute at below profitable rates should be investigatable too, to avoid killing competitors too easily? | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Dumping is typically used in the context of international trade. There are some predatory pricing laws, but they're much more narrow than most people believe. There is no law requiring things to be sold for more than it costs to produce. I think it's funny that these topics make people angry enough to demand that we make laws to force companies to raise prices. We'll stick it to these companies by forcing them to charge us more! That will show them! Such laws would be very bad for startups and newcomers because they'd be forced to price their new product higher than established competitors who have economies of scale. It would be a nice handout to the big companies. | |
| ▲ | parineum 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, that's where the realization led me too. These companies probably need to be forced to at least try to price their products at a level that would be sustainable long term. |
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| ▲ | andrekandre 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It's classic anticompetitive behavior.
well, "competition is for losers" isn't it? |
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| ▲ | toraway 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wait what, so they're testing giving new users misleading information about included services in each tier as an upsell tactic? |
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| ▲ | gip 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It could be an A/B test to see whether people without an existing subscription care about Claude Code (CC) at all. If they sign up then CC is disabled (or not as it is not really an issue to offer more). Capturing that info would definitely be useful to a growth team. | |
| ▲ | Arcuru 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, they're testing removing it from the Pro tier for new subscribers. | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No I think the test is that some new sign ups won't get Claude code in that tier if they pick it and they're seeing if users will still pay for it without it? | | |
| ▲ | fluidcruft 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the test is that new sign-ups won't have it and will the loss of five new Pro subscriptions be offset by more than one new Max subscribers. Plenty of Pro subscribers never touch claude-code. | | |
| ▲ | QuadmasterXLII 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Although the ones that never touch claude code are a free $20 a month, the ones that do are potentially a seventy to eighty dollar twenty dollars a month . it’s not instantly obvious which customers you prefer (revenue vs cash negative growth- on second thought obviously they prefer the second) | | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | They've preferred the second so far, but they might have a fair reason to see if they can keep growing with the first one instead or cut down on some loss leading, right? |
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| ▲ | HarHarVeryFunny 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's how i read it too - they want to test if people will still pay for pro plan if it doesn't include Claude Code. At the same time they are also saying that if you subscribe having been told it does include Claude Code, they may still change their mind later and take it away! |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | tonfreed 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This reeks of the start of enshittification. Very doubtful it was a "test" |