| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago |
| [flagged] |
|
| ▲ | tomhow 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Personal attacks like this are not acceptable on HN, no matter who or what they're about. The guidelines are clear that we expect better than this... Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer... Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html |
| |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 3 days ago | parent [-] | | You might want to perform a few searches for "Elon Musk", "Donald Trump", "rapist", and "pedophile". High-profile people are attacked constantly on HN. If you don't like a comment, report it; that's what the feature is for. I spent many years at Apple, dealing with Gruber directly. If I want to call him an asshole, I will do so. Lastly, I can't find a single comment in your history that materially adds to the conversation. It's like you believe it is your job to police HN. Hint: it isn't. | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm a moderator here. It's my job to uphold the guidelines. Personal abuse of anybody is against the guidelines, not because of what we think of any of those individuals, but because of what kind of site HN is meant to be and the kinds of people we want to be. The whole reason this is a place where people want to participate is that we've had guidelines since the start and we uphold them daily. Having known someone personally doesn't make a difference to whether the guidelines apply; indeed, it matters more to make the effort to follow them when it's a topic that is upsetting to you. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Great - thank you for your service. I'm a moderator for /r/politics on Reddit. If you think your job is difficult, you should try that for a bit. ;-) > HN is meant to be and the kinds of people we want to be Well, I desire to be honest and truthful about my experiences (at both Microsoft and Apple). If I believe my experience can be useful, I will share it. If you object to my comments, you are, of course, free to remove them. But don't preach to me about "who we want to be". Perhaps that is who you want to be. You've done your job by letting me know you don't like my thoughts on Gruber. Thank you. Now, either remove them or continue on with your moderation duties. Go bug the people calling Trump a pedophile and Musk a Nazi (which I agree with btw!). | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Can we quit with the defiant strutting? :) Once again, we're here for curious conversation, not... this. We don't “remove” anything (the only exception being when a user asks us to do so for privacy reasons). Personally abusive comments about anyone, including controversial public figures, should always be flagged/killed here, but whether that always happens in practice doesn't change whether the guidelines apply to you. You are very welcome, indeed encouraged, to share your experiences from Microsoft and Apple. We just need you to do it without junking up the place with personal abuse. It's a simple matter of being respectful to this community and the guidelines that make it a place where people want to discuss interesting topics. A comment that consists of nothing more than personal insults about an individual is not “useful” and only drives away people who want to have curious conversations. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 2 days ago | parent [-] | | 1. You have repeatedly made the same point. I've heard you. 2. I just submitted a post [0] about Claude refusing to follow stop hook rules. That post is not visible to anyone but me. My previous submissions are still visible. Did you shadowban me? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47889070 | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I was repeating myself because the disrespectful tone of the replies was continuing, particularly in the last 3-4 lines of that comment. Regarding your post: it was killed by a spam filter. Sorry about that; we've been deluged with spam and bot-generated posts lately, so the filters have to be tuned quite strictly. We don't ban anyone (other than blatant spammers/trolls) without multiple warnings. I've created a new copy of the post now so it can have its full time on the /newest page. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills a day ago | parent [-] | | > I was repeating myself because the disrespectful tone of the replies was continuing And that will continue as long as you continue to reply in kind. One of the things I find hilarious about your responses: they are exactly like the trolls we deal with in /r/politics. Trolls respond in the same way no matter what you say to them. It's like talking to a wall. Also, the "spam filter" excuse is bullshit. There is nothing about that post that would have been flagged. It was 100% fact based and would have been useful to the community. I have never had a submission or comment flagged as "spam" before Tom. I didn't ask you to create another copy of that post. And now I can't delete it. It is almost like you have absolutely no idea how to be a moderator. Sorry if that is "disrespectful". I'll be respectful as soon as you start acting like a moderator. | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Regarding the post you made that was killed: it's a new kind of filter we're experimenting with to deal with the deluge of LLM-generated material that's being posted. That's a recent phenomenon that we're having to experiment with new ways of addressing. We're already aware that it doesn't work particularly reliably on the kind of post you submitted, and we're working to improve it. It was not caused by anything specific to your account; no “shadow-bans” or other penalties. We don't ban accounts or kill posts over moderation disputes. I created a new copy of the post because I assumed that, given you had submitted it earlier and pointed out that it had been killed, you still wanted it to be live. I did that as a goodwill gesture, to show that it was nothing personal or deliberate. If you don't want that post linked to your account, you're welcome to email us (hn@ycombinator.com) and ask us to remove it from your account's history. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | pazimzadeh 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| you met john gruber at apple? |
| |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Many times, yes. He's on campus a few times a year and almost always attends WWDC, the private parties, etc. | | |
|
|
| ▲ | turtlesdown11 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [flagged] |
| |
| ▲ | tomhow 3 days ago | parent [-] | | WTF? You can't post personal attacks or abusive names for people like this on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html´ | | |
| ▲ | turtlesdown11 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | the bias in moderation action on HC is astounding, and starting a moderation comment with "WTF" just illustrates the lack of professionalism | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Our bias is towards the HN guidelines, no matter who or what the topic or “side” is. We often don't know and it's never the point. This site is for curious conversation, not low-substance, ideologically-charged venting. We have to ban accounts that continue to treat this place with disrespect. |
| |
| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
|
|
|
| ▲ | colesantiago 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [flagged] |
| |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | What's the grift? By "rebuke" do you mean the thing where they didn't send any of their execs to be a guest on his WWDC podcast episode, presumably in retribution for his "Something Is Rotten in the State of Cupertino" post? I don't see how that makes him irrelevant - I think it strengthens his credibility as someone willing to hold Apple accountable when he disagrees with their direction. | | |
| ▲ | colesantiago 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Apple prefers tech influencers / YouTubers like Marques Brownlee and the like who actually resonate with audiences (and don't harp on about Trump every week) rather than irrelevant bloggers. > I don't see how that makes him irrelevant - I think it strengthens his credibility as someone willing to hold Apple accountable when he disagrees with their direction. ??? Accountable to what? Do you actually think Apple cares now about a random blogger who makes a living critiquing them? That is the grift and by the looks of it I would say he is irrelevant since Apple declined his invitation. Gruber needs Apple more than Apple needs him. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > Do you actually think Apple cares now about a random blogger who makes a living critiquing them? Yes. I mean, they clearly care enough to pull their execs from his podcast supposedly in response to something he wrote. So is "the grift" the fact that he makes a living writing a blog? Who are the victims of this particular grift? |
| |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Why should my opinion of how credible he is as a writer about Apple be affected by people who work at Apple not liking him? | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Because there are very specific reasons why people (who actually know his relationship to Apple) don't view him as credible. I don't know how else to communicate that point. | | |
| ▲ | colesantiago 4 days ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I have genuinely no idea how I'm sealioning here. The answer to my question appears to be "it's a secret, I'll tell you in private, everyone at Apple thinks like this". I know at least one person who works at Apple who respects Gruber, so I'm already suspicious of the confidence being expressed here. | | |
| ▲ | colesantiago 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This person is more credible than your unknown source and he knows many that doesn't like Gruber. and Simon you're a indie journalist, why don't you contact him and find out? | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The answer to my question appears to be "it's a secret, I'll tell you in private, everyone at Apple thinks like this". Because that is the truth. I have no intention of sharing confidential information publicly. Your take is "someone won't betray their previous employer publicly, so they must be lying." I offered to share my thoughts, work experience, and other details with you privately. I've lost all respect for you as a journalist. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Before I spend time talking to someone I like to be reasonably confident that it's going to be a valuable conversation. The vibes aren't great here. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | What "vibes"? I do NOT like John as a person. That has no bearing on whether or not what I'm claiming is true. I was an engineer at both Microsoft and Apple. I have extensive experience at both companies in how we shared information with 3rd parties and how we intentionally cultivated those relationships for specific purposes. I'm currently building an interesting tool for macOS that Claude can't build on its own. I was considering reaching out to you because I was certain you'd find Claude's responses interesting. It is mind-boggling that this is how you interact with people publicly. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The vibes of starting a thread with "You've never met a more conceited asshole", followed by attacking my credibility with "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" and "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" purely because I asked "what's the grift?". It was mainly the "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" thing that put me off, I didn't see how that was a reasonable response to what I had commented in this thread. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > "You've never met a more conceited asshole" Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find an Apple engineer who has spent any in-person time with John who doesn't have a similar take. > "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" There is nothing in this thread, aside from your supposed "friend", that makes me believe you've had any direct contact with Apple employees who know anything about John's relationship with Apple. So, in this specific instance, I have no reason to believe you know what you are talking about. Lastly, I'm not the one who pointed out any grift. My point was that John's relationship to Apple is complicated. You are communicating with someone who helped build two of the most popular development tools of all time, and yet you continue to act like you are above us, poor HN commenters. I've offered to discuss things with you privately (which is the right thing to do, since I have no intention of hurting Apple), and you've ignored it. Anyone who has access to information and yet refuses to engage is not a journalist. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Would you still like me to email you? I don't have time for a conversation today (mainly because I'm not a journalist and have software I need to ship) but I can contact you if you think it would be productive. | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I am more than happy to have a conversation. I am more than happy to share my experiences with John. I am more than happy to talk about some of the things we did at Apple (and MS) to "help" certain stories reach the right people. We definitely handled John differently than people like David Pogue or Jason Snell. I'm also happy to show you a demo of my app (built without AI assistance) that Claude has repeatedly failed to replicate because it requires architectural knowledge that SOTA models still aren't able to turn into a comprehensive solution. That is very different from building a web browser from scratch. If none of that interests you, then no, there is no need to reach out. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | jmull 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The comment asks what’s the grift? How is he irrelevant? You ignore the questions and respond with ad hominem attacks. Obviously, you’ve got a beef with Gruber. That’s fine. But you’re acquitting yourself well here (and make us suspect that whatever happened between you and Gruber, you might have had a significant hand in it). | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | simonw 4 days ago | parent [-] | | How does he get paid by Apple? I thought he earned his living from $11,000/week blog sponsors and whatever he earns from the podcast. If Apple are paying him to cover them then yes, that's a grift. Is that happening? (I know they send him review hardware because he discloses that in his posts.) | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | As I said, this is not something I will discuss publicly. But what I can say is that Apple wouldn't be the first tech company to pay for certain stories to be written, as I'm sure you're aware. There was a time when Apple needed John (along with his apparent "unbiased" takes). John's blog was critical for a period of time. | | |
| ▲ | replwoacause 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I found this exchange both entertaining and informative. Appreciate you sharing an insider's perspective (while also acknowledging I have no possible way to verify if any of this is even true). | | |
| ▲ | LatencyKills 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Heh... thanks. I don't expect anyone to just believe this information verbatim; as you said, I'm just some rando on HN. But I did offer to discuss it privately with @simonw. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
