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Traster 3 hours ago

Even if you buy the idea that Kalshi is a prediction market whose mechanism is gambling but whose product is accurate predictions, you don't have to buy the idea that insider trading is a good thing. Yes, in the rare occasion there exists someone with (a) insider information (b) confidence their actions won't impact their insider position and (c) access to capital - then you get extremely accurate predictions.

In every other case you get worse predictions. Since those who are predicting have to now construct their bets such that they know they can always get run over by an insider. So in the general case it reduces the ability of the predictors to push the market in the right direction, because they always have to risk manage the fact that someone out there might run them over with insider information.

stouset an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Not just insider information, but insider access. If the outcome of some prop bet is under the control of a handful of people, those people can trivially conspire to produce whatever outcome is most profitable to them.

tptacek an hour ago | parent [-]

If the outcome of a prop bet really is fully controlled by insiders, so that those insiders are making decisions based on betting outcomes, then allowing that betting to occur seems antisocial and counterproductive to begin with. This is another problem with the Polymarket/Kalshi species of "prediction market".

michaelt an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If people with more information profit at the expense of people with less information, isn't that exactly how things are supposed to work?

If you're approaching a market with hard facts, detailed comparisons and solid evidence; while I'm trading in the same market based on vibes and intuition, surely it's expected that your returns would be better, and mine worse?

knowsuchagency an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Short answer, no. If you're betting on an outcome that can be controlled by an individual or small group, the incentive is for them to game the system by doing the OPPOSITE of what the prediction is so as to make the most money.

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

throwaway173738 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you’re betting with a friend that they won’t have chicken for dinner, what’s to stop them from having chicken for dinner? What if you bet with a complete stranger who also took the reverse of that bet from your friend?

pjc50 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A fact is a statement about past. A bet is contingent on the future.

Insiders can change the facts.

CodingJeebus an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You're confusing collusion with being informed. The concept of market rationality is based on the premise that all participants in said market more or less have access to the same information. Fools can choose to not be informed before making a trade, but passing along sensitive information that contradicts market rational behavior causes people to lose trust in the market.

Perfect example from today. Allbirds just announced that they're going all in on AI infra, skyrocketing the stock. Had I bought a million dollars worth of Allbirds yesterday, everyone would think I'm an idiot. But now, they would think I have insider information and would no longer want to participate because it would make no sense to buy Allbirds yesterday unless I knew the announcement was coming.

Karrot_Kream 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If an insider with large amounts of capital makes a big trade, they also end up discouraging other trades. Once you see a huge position taken, LPs are going to scale back their liquidity in other positions to manage risk that the insider is going to stomp them. Any trader monitoring position sizes is going to probably scale back their trading. All of this contributes to less trading and less commission on these markets.

Sports betting is so profitable for prediction markets because they're mostly unsophisticated retail flow making lots and lots of trades, giving the platforms commission. If an insider just pushes market prices in their direction the platforms are going to lose on volume.

tyre 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Since those who are predicting have to now construct their bets such that they know they can always get run over by an insider.

The average person does not do this. People trade individual stocks all the time, despite every other market participant (banks, hedge funds, etc.) having better information and technology.

It's why institutions like Citadel pay for retail order flow. They know that retail traders don't have an edge and, if anything, often end up being negative signal.

Karrot_Kream 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No but sophisticated traders will also get stomped by this. Just because you're a sharp oil trading shop doesn't mean you can combat an insider who knows when Brent is about to spike in price due to insider knowledge.

tptacek an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You can see all across the responses here the encoded premise that the point of a prediction market is to enable people to profit from making accurate predictions. No. The point is for the price to be accurate; for the market to make an accurate prediction. That someone with a P1 prediction can roll over people with less confidence is a feature.