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jfoworjf 4 hours ago

This story is the one that finally pushed me to leave google. I moved off my ~20 year old Google account and deleted everything off their services including almost a decade of Google photos. I cancelled my Google one subscription for extra space. I'm now self hosting what I can and paying proton mail for everything else. I refuse to allow a company that will hand over data at the request of an administrative warrant to hold my data.

drnick1 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This. The real solution here is to keep your data, encrypted, on your own devices. The idea that everything needs to be in the cloud is absurd and naturally leads to concentration of power.

palata an hour ago | parent | next [-]

If the data is encrypted, it can go on the cloud, though.

flaburgan an hour ago | parent [-]

It still is risky, as who knows what tools NSA & cie really have. Even if it feels safe now, it can be stored by them, and what will (quantum?) computers be able to do in a decade? And how will the US gov look like at that time?

xmprt an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Forget that. If they are really so motivated, they can get a warrant to raid your home and confiscate your hard drives.

It's not an apples to apples comparison because an administrative warrant served to Google is much different from raiding your home but if they wanted to they could.

At this point, acting as if America (and many parts of the world for that matter) aren't living under an authoritarian government is futile. We still have freedoms but they're trying really hard to take them away from us.

fhdkweig an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even if the encryption is sound, some day in the future laws can be written that compel a citizen to relinquish their passwords. In 2000, the UK passed a law called RIPA that can be used that way. They say it is only used in emergencies, but who is to say what constitutes an emergency.

https://thblegal.com/news/can-i-be-prosecuted-for-failing-to...

seanw444 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly. People aren't taking SNDL seriously enough.

zotex an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

smallmancontrov 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Migrating is such a good feeling. You don't have to do it all at once, either: I migrated to fastmail over the course of several years. Each time google did something that got my blood pressure up I went into my password manager and migrated another account. In aggregate it was a hassle, but these days I almost miss the feeling of being able to do something in response to stinky actions from google.

patja 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I recently migrated off of my legacy "Google Apps for Your Domain" (now Workspace) account to a mix of self hosting and a regular old vanilla gmail account.

It was a real eye opener to experience how challenging it was to move my data from one Google account to another. Takeout is nice in theory, but there is no equivalent "Takein" service that accepts the data form import to another Google account in the format produced by Takeout! I naively assumed "Export Google calendar from here, import same files to there" but nope, that did not work at all. Maps data was even worse.

sam345 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think fastmail is going to help you. They are subject to legal requirements too and probably American jurisdiction also despite what their particular position is. https://www.fastmail.com/blog/fastmails-servers-are-in-the-u.... People love to hate Google but they're just doing what any corporation subject to law is going to do.

trocado an hour ago | parent [-]

Fwiw that post states:

> It has been pointed out to us that since we have our servers in the US, we are under US jurisdiction. We do not believe this to be the case. We do not have a legal presence in the US, no company incorporated in the US, no staff in the US, and no one in the US with login access to any servers located in the US. Even if a US court were to serve us with a court order, subpoena or other instruction to hand over user data, Australian communications and privacy law explicitly forbids us from doing so.

BeetleB 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anticipation of stories like this are why I didn't rely much on Google 20 years ago.

Never used Gmail other than as a throwaway account.

Went many years before I had a Youtube account. Finally made one to upload some videos. I am normally not logged in.

(OK, OK - I was more concerned with them suddenly charging for a "free" service, as well as selling data to commercial enterprises than with them giving to the government).

(OK, OK - I do use Android).

tclancy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

What will the world be like in 2046?

duckmysick an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Does anyone else remember Epic 2014? It was a video made years ago that speculated about the future of the internet and media, with the end game being personalized news written by a computer. The timeline is off but the brand names are mostly the usual suspects. Rewatching it now gives me this uncanny feeling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUHBPuHS-7s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPIC_2014

BeetleB an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The same :-)

Edit: People are not understanding the humor in the question. I implied I predicted this reality 20 years ago, and he's asking for another prediction 20 years out.

shmeeed an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That doesn't matter.

The question is, who do you trust with your private data forever? To me and the parent, the answer is obvious: no one except yourself.

greenavocado an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Digital gulag of whitelisted opinions and actions you are allowed to think/perform/express

anonymousiam 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've migrated everything from Google except for Google Voice. I have yet to find an alternative that can match the feature set and ease of use, regardless of the cost.

-Fu 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I've been using voip.ms for over a decade, they have a great feature set and are very affordable.

samtheprogram an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

What part of the feature set in particular has been lacking in competitors?

EDIT: asking because I've been working on an alternative of sorts. I used GV a lot before I figured I could go without it/Google.

armadyl an hour ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure what the OP does, but at least for me I find myself chained to Google Voice for SMS 2FA use because it's basically the only phone number provider that cannot be exploited with a sim swap attack (same deal with Google Fi). And while I don't necessarily trust Google, their account security is leagues ahead of anyone else imo.

I previously looked at jmp.chat but they didn't really inspire confidence on the security front.

Gigachad an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you haven’t already, have a look at Immich. It’s a fantastic self hosted replacement for Google photos. They have pretty much perfectly replicated the UI.

ghm2199 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nice. I want to do the same too. What process/workflow did you use to move all the websites you had given your email addresses to, to move to your proton email? I am guessing it will take several years, but I would like to start the move of my gmail.

cheriot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are there good hosted options that will not respond to non-judicial data requests?

Someone is going to say self hosted is better and I don't disagree, but there's limits to how much time I can spend on self hosted stuff.

spockz an hour ago | parent [-]

Protonmail iirc. You can even get documents and photos synced. Not sure how well it works for photos.

baranul an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Use of Google seems to have become implied consent for them to use or give away any and all of your data, for whatever purpose, to any government, legal entity, or advertiser.

pesus 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you run into any serious complications doing that? I'm a bit worried that I've used my google account for so long and for many things that I might accidentally lock myself out of something important without it.

magicalhippo 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I migrated away from my main email, it wasn't a Google mail but it was on the providers domain.

First I signed up with Proton Mail and added my own domain, they fit the bill for me, YMMV.

Then I did a search in my password manager and went through those accounts.

Then I just let the old account sit there for a year. Each time I got an email from something I cared about I'd log in and change mail.

It's been a year now, and I'm about to terminate the old account. All I get there now is occasional spam.

I really dreaded this, but all in all quite painless. And next time it should be easier since I now own the email domain.

edit: Forgot to mention I use Thunderbird, so old email I archived to local folders. That's part if why I ended with Proton, their IMAP bridge allows me to keep using Thunderbird.

al_borland an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I started doing this a while ago, but made the mistake of buying a .io domain. With the future of that domain uncertain, I’ve been rolling that back, not back to Gmail, but to the underlying Proton account for the moment.

I’ve also had some bad experiences with rates being raised on domains. That still ends up feeling like a risk to me, as the problem of domain squatters has not been solved, and the “solution” being employed seems to be continued rate hikes and exorbitant pricing for “premium” domains. It makes buying a domain for email not seem worth it… or at least not without its own long-term risks.

My current project has been trying to reduce my footprint, by deleting old and unused accounts, so any future migrations will be easier. I’ve found with many sites, this is easier said than done. For example, I deleted my Venmo account at least 2 months ago, yet I just got an email from them yesterday about reviewing privacy settings. Did they delete my account? They sure didn’t delete all my data if I continue to get emails. I’m betting they just set a ‘delete’ flag in the database. The lack of accountability and transparency on these things is really bad.

barrkel 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I exported all my email with Google Takeout, and Claude Code was able to write me a threaded email viewer local web app with basic search (chained ripgrep) in about 10 minutes, for any time I need to search archived emails.

jonhohle an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

One thing I've not seen mentioned when people talk about moving to an owned domain is what happens when you don't own it anymore?

There are a million services that assume that if you have access to the email content you are the account holder. Google claims they don't recycle email addresses, but if you lose your domain, the next owner has access to all emails from that point forward.

If something happens and you're unable to renew your domain, are your next of kin out of luck?

jfoworjf 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing. To the contrary things work BETTER outside the google eco system. The way to do it is incrementally. You don't just yolo delete you Gmail day 1. I still have mine, it's just getting almost no traffic today. Start by moving to an alternative email provider. I use proton. Buy a domain so that you can move providers easily in the future and use catch all email. Do a Google takeout and store the backup somewhere safe (I just use two hard drives sitting and home, replicated). Move the thing that you need day to day somewhere else. You can pay for someone to host it for you or self host. I'm self hosting immich for my Google photos replacement. I'm using proton calendar and email for Gmail service replacements. I was already using signal for most communications, but do that. I moved to graphene to get off of android and there are some sharp edges there if you want off Google play. I had to give up Android auto and gps tends to work worse (graphene does support android auto but I didnt like the tradeoffs). Nothing dealbreaking but can be annoying.

For general security, I also use a yubikey for all services that support it, froze credit with all agencies, and added phone support passwords to all my financial institutions.

fragmede 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> I just use two hard drives sitting and home, replicated

The failure modes of that are fire/natural disaster, and thieves. Do that, but also have a geographically redundant backup scheme. Either encrypted eg Backblaze or a relatives house in another state.

hackermatic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've run into one government website that required email addresses to come from gmail.com, outlook.com, or another common domain, and several websites that won't let you change your email address once registered. It also makes it really confusing if someone needs to share Google Docs with you. So I've moved as much as I can off of Google, but some stuff will linger forever.

yellow_postit 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I use Fastmail and the main difference I notice is less effective spam filtering — it’s good but not as great as Gmail was.

Overall it’s been an acceptable trade off and I’m glad years ago I switched to a custom domain for email so I can have portability.

rubyn00bie 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Damn that’s wild to me, because Gmail absolutely refuses to send things to spam despite me incessantly marking them as spam.

I honestly assumed that everyone had a rotten time with Gmail spam filtering but I guess it’s just a me problem. I suppose that means I’m up for an interesting time dealing with it as I move to a custom domain somewhere else.

Anyone have any recommendations for providers that have exceptionally good spam filtering? Hell I’d even just settle for ones that honor “mark as spam,” because Gmail absolutely does not.

subscribed an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I get maybe one genuine spam not marked as such and maybe one false positive per month.

I'm getting a lot of emails and between 10-20 spams a day, but that's years of the very careful messages reporting and categorisation.

Similarly with important and "normal" emails - i only get one-two important per week, and marked as such for the same reasons; no false negatives.

boneitis 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not just you. I experience the same thing. It is thoroughly maddening.

FireBeyond 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Interesting, I have used Fastmail for probably a decade plus at this point, and whether it's my obsessive rating of false negatives and positives, it is amazingly rare that I get spam slip into my inbox (maybe one message a week from ~100/day received, while my spam folder gets about 10/day).

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
hexmiles 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Personally, I deleted everything I could but kept the Gmail account for a couple of years with a forward to my new account, and after that, I also deleted it. Google Takeout is a very useful way to quickly create a backup of everything Google.

sneak an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was 13 years ago that Snowden told us they were using FAA702 as the #1 source of sigint to warrantlessly obtain any data they want from major service providers.

Did you not understand it at the time? Did you not see the news stories? This isn't rhetoric, I'm genuinely curious. It's been public knowledge for a long long time that Google hands data over to the USG without a warrant (likely without even Google eyes on the request, via automated means).

What changed that this story was the one that made you react?

traderj0e 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wasn't even a warrant, right? They did this willingly.

pixel_popping 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Google leak ALL the time without warrant, Apple as well.

traderj0e 3 hours ago | parent [-]

When have they done this before?

pixel_popping 3 hours ago | parent [-]

500k time a year: https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview

traderj0e 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Those are supposedly ones where they legally had to comply. This case was different.

pixel_popping 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, they do it also for any sort of administrative, without warrant.

fluidcruft 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When did you find out about this? The timeline of this actually pushing you to do all that seems a bit unbelievable and difficult to take seriously.

nostrademons 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Note that there was a major press cycle about this in October / November of last year - a quick Google showed stories in the Guardian, The Intercept, and the Cornell Sun, as well as commentary on Reddit. Not inconceivable that they found about it last October and had six months to leave and de-Googlify.

caminante 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Note that there was a major press cycle about this in October / November of last year

Fair point. However...the parent's comment is also fair because the article does a poor job of raising this material fact. You have to click through a sub-article.

It's almost like this article should be tagged (2025) because it's basically a replay of the author's account from 2025.[0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/05/palest...

jfoworjf 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As other comments say, it was a major story months ago. I started moving off around December. It's a long process to switch over all email accounts. I only recently got self hosted kubernetes set up for immich as a Google photos replacement and some other hosting needs but for the most part I am off google. I get probably 1-2 emails a week still going to Gmail but when I do I just switch those accounts to my new email. It will be a while before the old Gmail is deleted entirely unfortunately.

I didn't mention it in op but I also moved to graphene os which tbh feels much better than android has recently.

jjulius 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Setting aside the fact that this is a new account and it's their only post, what about the timeline is difficult to understand?

The request came in April 2025, and the user was notified the following month. That's next to a year for them to hear about it internally and then quit and setup self-hosting prior to today.

wat10000 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe they read one of the articles written about this incident months ago.

busterarm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's this account's only comment and was only created right before posting. It has no credibility.

jfoworjf 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

One of the best things about hn is that accounts are cheap and disposable. For me, most threads get their own account. I don't like people tracking my full comment history across the internet with it all tied to one account, even when it's just one I use to comment on harmless tech stories

ars an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> For me, most threads get their own account.

This is a violation of the guidelines: "Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to."

caminante 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's also futile because you generate a signature that can be traced across aliases, sites, etc.

busterarm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

`Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to.`

This just proves my point to discount what you say. You're basically admitting to being a pest.

fluidcruft 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That puts some responsibility on you to provide more context for your comments as extra signals of authenticity.

traderj0e 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No it doesn't. I don't care how many HN comments you have.

fluidcruft an hour ago | parent [-]

An extensive comment history signals alignment with the community.

traderj0e an hour ago | parent | next [-]

What does it mean to be aligned with HN? Cause pretty sure I'm not that

fluidcruft 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

All communities have rules of behavior.

traderj0e 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Oh ok, I'm fine with that, but that newbie account is following the rules and being respectful. Same cannot even be said about some accounts with 9999 points.

busterarm an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

More than that but they back up the things they say with something more than vapor.

You don't have to dox yourself, but people have to be able to at least call you out on consistency. There needs to be some indication that you're not _just_ a sockpuppet.

Otherwise I don't have any justification to engage with your expressions seriously.

LastTrain 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If they were motivated enough by this story to delete 20 years worth of history maybe they were motivated enough to create an account and talk about it?

busterarm 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't care. The UX means I can't give it any credibility.

For all I know this could be somebody's OpenClaw spouting bullshit. The default credibility of all throwaways is zero and that was even true before 2023.

If you let it influence your opinion in any way you're a fool.

linkregister 2 hours ago | parent [-]

From busterarm's profile: "Most people are stupid and/or on drugs."

The account is from 2013 but given that profile, I can't give it any credibility. After all, it could be somebody's OpenClaw having been granted control of the account.

djeastm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They could just be very concerned with privacy.

einpoklum an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's good that people migrate, just remember that you haven't deleted anything. They have all of that data and so do various US government agencies and, who knows, maybe other third parties.

Also remember, that when you exchange email with people who use GMail, then they've got you again.

dismalaf 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple and Microsoft are also subject to US laws. It's not like any company can get around this.

linkregister 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Administrative warrants do not carry the weight of law. It's merely a term of art for a request for information.

jll29 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That statement is true at face value. But if you look at how Eric Schmidt travels with government representatives, how rich and powerful BigTech is, and how much they individually and collectively spend on lobbying, then they could be a massive obstacle if they only cared.