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rustyhancock 12 hours ago

The older I get the more sensitive to a single poor night's sleep I become.

The most frustrating effect is that even a few drinks in the evening (maybe over 2-3 units). Unsettles my sleep that if I'm in the process of learning something feels like it sets me back several days.

That's not even counting the slowed processing I feel, and lower productivity the next day.

I genuinely have to revisit old information.

A genuine hangover from a heavy night can put me out of action for half a week!

When I was younger I'm not sure I had many good nights sleep let alone noticed a bad one!

I've heard that small amounts of alcohol can actually improve learning interestingly by preventing interference from events later in the day.

raducu 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>The older I get the more sensitive to a single poor night's sleep I become.

Back when I was 20 I had a drinking problem. One time I drank so much that I passed out sitting at a table. Woke up with friends having stripped my clothes and washed them. I woke up at 9AM, feeling 100% sober, just anxious about my 20 missed calls from my mom. I got a bit drunk at about 33 and next day I thought I was dying.

That's how I learnt what hangovers were.

Again, at around 25, I helped my brother in-law move bee hives all night, including some 8 hours of driving.

Went straight to work and in the evening I had dinner with my wife at a restaurant.

Now I crash in bed at 9PM and if I'm lucky, I also sleep (but quite often I wake up at 2AM).

Getting old(er) sucks, and I'm only 42 and I miss so much how nice being in my 20 something body felt all the time.

tboughen 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m 41 and my body is nicer to be in than when I was 25.

Like you, I have much less youthful buffer that shrugs off poor sleep or overindulgence, but I have much more knowledge and much better habits.

Daily habits: better nutrition (based on Bryan Johnson’s super veggie and nutty pudding), stretching, weak points warmup, proper oral hygiene, regular bedtime

Weekly habits: 4x gym, 3x run, 2x weighted walk

I have used ChatGPT to work out a program that is helping me to overcome injuries and niggles while building strength and cardio. I’m 3 months into my latest training schedule, and it’s unreasonably effective.

alternatex 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Reminder for anyone that doesn't know better: having good sleep is dependent on a few minor lifestyle adjustments. Like avoiding heavy (or any outside of fruit and vegetable) meals and exercise a few hours before going to bed. And avoiding caffeine after noon.

You don't need to be a health champion to have good sleep.

aethrum 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

do you exercise?

chasd00 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m 49 and have all but given up on drinking. It does nothing for me except make me tired and then, ironically, mess up my sleep. On fridays I grill cheeseburgers for the family and usually have one Half-Life tall boy from Manhattan Brewery because it’s my favorite of all time but that’s about it. Otherwise, I don’t drink at all. Being tired and not sleeping well is handled perfectly adequately by my job hah.

criddell 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm pretty much the same as you. I really like beer and wine and cocktails, but the bad sleep and feeling shitty the next day after even one drink isn't worth it. Thirty years ago hangovers were rare and could usually be ended with a cup of coffee, tylenol, and lots of water.

The next thing I have to back off on is sugar. It doesn't seem to mess up my sleep like booze, but I definitely notice it the day after I have that big bowl of ice cream or giant slice of cake. A big enough sugar binge feels pretty close to a hangover for me now.

born1989 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This must be a marketing campaign bit

mettamage 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The older I get the more sensitive to a single poor night's sleep I become.

Can relate.

> The most frustrating effect is that even a few drinks in the evening (maybe over 2-3 units). Unsettles my sleep that if I'm in the process of learning something feels like it sets me back several days.

I'm not noticing it unsettles my learning but can relate to a few drinks already upsetting my sleep. I wouldn't be surprised if my learning would be impaired by at least a bit.

> When I was younger I'm not sure I had many good nights sleep let alone noticed a bad one!

Being young is a blessing that way.

I'm +35 years old by the way.

> I've heard that small amounts of alcohol can actually improve learning interestingly by preventing interference from events later in the day.

Do you have a source? Would be curious to look some of it up.

rustyhancock 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm in a similar age bracket.

Here is some research around the alcohol effect. What I found most surprising is the mean consumption was over 80g, since 8g of ethanol is a unit that's an astonishing mean of 10units.

I was of the impression that the effect was around 1 unit.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5524957/

volkl48 9 hours ago | parent [-]

While there's no consistent standard, most countries appear to be using something in the 10-14g range for what they call a "standard drink"/"unit" of alcohol. (UK is 8g, but the rest of the EU typically uses 10g or 12g, US uses 14g).

I actually hadn't realized until I went looking that the "standard drink" isn't much of an international standard unit at all. Will have to keep that in mind when reading papers/recommendations from different health authorities in the future.

-----

Anyway, it's pretty interesting. I'm not sure I'm going to believe the effect just on one noisy study, but even if the reality is something lesser - like it just not harming memory formation of things you'd learned earlier in the day, the implications are still a bit interesting.

It certainly adds a bit to some of the historical social biases against "day drinking", and also does a bit to explain how plenty of high-performing young people seem to use alcohol pretty heavily after they're done learning (college students partying, etc) with limited direct impacts on their educational performance.

dkarl 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If my Oura ring can be trusted, alcohol doesn't interfere with my total amount of sleep or my REM sleep, but it reduces my deep sleep drastically and can even result in me getting zero deep sleep, which hasn't happened a single time without alcohol.

bitexploder 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For a long time with sleep studies they would give participants a single unit of alcohol. Alcohol has always trashed sleep, even when younger.

RobRivera 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I went sober dor this precise reason. It's a quality of life thing.

djsamseng 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“Their brains… look like small walnuts inside their skull… There's so much atrophy that happens with an alcohol soaked brain chronically that I would say that's, you know, far and away, the most common source of brain damage” - Dr. Matthew Macdouglas head neurosurgeon at Neurolink on the Huberman podcast starting at 1:40:00

telemetrics 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Weird responses from those two users. Ignore them

x______________ 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Those responses are very much valid responses to a topic that some share as a valid conversational topic on a thread about getting good sleep and learning, myself included.

Even better, the topic is visited on part 6.2[1] of the article you're replying to.

1 https://super-memory.com/articles/sleep.htm#Alcohol

  >Weird responses from those two users. Ignore them
This type of response on the other hand, is not helpful at all and for a 14 day old account with this only post...

Some might say you are the one worth ignoring.

Ifkaluva 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like you have a problem with alcohol, not with sleeping.

rustyhancock 12 hours ago | parent [-]

What makes you say that?

elAhmo 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Mentioning drinking three times (effects of drinks in the evening, hangover, effects on learning) in a single response might give an impression you like to drink.

egormakarov 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I mean, they sell alcohol in shops for money, and not force it on you in some government-mandated way. Which kinda tells that people in general like to drink.

master-lincoln 11 hours ago | parent [-]

> Which kinda tells that people in general like to drink.

No, it just tells you there is enough demand for alcohol selling to be a profitable business, not that people in general like to drink.

mainmailman 10 hours ago | parent [-]

There are bars everywhere

master-lincoln 9 hours ago | parent [-]

There are also gambling machines everywhere around me yet I don't know a single person who uses them.

I looked up numbers for the USA and 2025 54% said they consume alcohol. So it's most people but millions don't.

integralid 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Huh, that's much less than I expected! Apparently it's just for adult population (correctly). Apparently that varies from year to year (in 2024 it was 64%), and by race (highest in white people 70%). I also wonder how that looks when we exclude older people (let's say over 60) who more often have health problems or just tolerate alcohol very badly).

It's higher in my country so good to know that USA drinks less than I assumed.

IAmBroom 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Most". Kinda proves the general point: alcohol consumption is common.

soco 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The topic is drinking so they mentioned drinking, and usually people do what they like to do, and in other news water is wet - but do we judge water for being wet? So let's stop virtue signaling because it's definitely not a show of virtue. I see where religious fundamentalism is taking the world and damn if I like it.

Ifkaluva 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m not religious at all, and it’s not religious fundamentalism to point out that alcohol disrupts sleep, and that this likely is the primary factor affecting the poster’s sleep.

Also not religious fundamentalism to point out that alcohol is a known carcinogen (: that’s just science. It’s a Group 1 carcinogen, the same group as tobacco and asbestos.

dr_dshiv 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Sunlight is a carcinogen

kashunstva 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> Sunlight is a carcinogen

But sunlight is essential for the cutaneous conversion of 7-dehydrocholesterol to vitamin D3, whereas ethanol serves no essential purpose, irrespective of whether one enjoys it or not.

Personally I don’t consume ethanol; but I don’t care if others do or not so long as they stay off the roads and are not piloting my flight.

I will say that when I did consume ethanol even in small quantities, my sleep was much worse than it is at baseline; and that effect only worsened as I got older.

dr_dshiv 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Ethanol is food— you also don't need carbs, but they do keep you alive. More importantly, it fairly central to cultural vitality. Not essential but it plays a highly functional role. Maybe could be replaced by religion or other drugs, but short of that, the world is less vibrant without it.

jodrellblank 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> "The topic is drinking"

The topic is sleeping.