Alcohol is always poisonous (but mixed with methanol quite a bit more poisonous ) :-)

pcrh 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Ethanol is a naturally occurring substance, humans and many animals have specifically evolved ways of processing it. In moderate doses it does no harm.

It's almost impossible to avoid ingesting some alcohol during the course of a natural diet, and that includes if you avoid fermented food such as bread, let alone beverages deliberately brewed to be alcoholic.

	▲	busymom0 19 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Isn't the problem of poisoning caused by Methanol and not Ethanol? Gemini says this: "Ethanol is the type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, spirits) meant for consumption. While ethanol is safe for moderate consumption, methanol is extremely toxic and can cause poisoning, blindness, or death, even in small amounts."

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dnnddidiej 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

And if you have one of those poisons the antedote is the other one.

Edit: only one way round! This is not medical advice. I am not a doctor. I am not your doctor or drinking doula.

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froh 2 days ago | parent [-]

you suggest additional drinking methanol when you're "normally" drunk?? that's dangerously counterfactual.

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adzm 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

No, ethanol is an antidote to methanol

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hilbert42 2 days ago | parent [-]

Where's the authority on that?

Ethanol can be used as a temporary measure in methanol poisoning as it temporarily outcompetes methanol in the metabolic process. So it's only useful until proper medical help arrives when better alternatives such as fomepizole are administered. Even then there is no guarantee of success.

Methanol is still metabolized to dangerous formaldehyde and formic acid by the liver's alcohol dehydrogenase. The logic of giving ethanol or fomepizole is to slow down the rate of production methanol's dangerous metabolic byproducts so less damage is done, nevertheless those dangerous metabolites are still produced.

Ethanol's first-pass metabolite is acetaldehyde and it is still toxic but not to the same degree as those of methanol.

It is incorrect to say ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning. Using ethanol is a last-ditch stand to try and take some minor control of an otherwise out of control situation. There's nothing subtle about it—it's a blunderbuss approach that often doesn't work well because replacing one poison with a less toxic one is a pretty hit-and-miss process.

Antidotes counteract poisons, that's not what happens when you give ethanol in methanol poisonings.

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dnnddidiej a day ago | parent | next [-]

It is technically an antidote though. Based on the definition of antidote.

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btreecat a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where are the sources on your claims that ethenol is only a temporary or last ditch treatment?

	▲	hilbert42 a few seconds ago \| parent [-]
		Suggest you read the link in my reply to pessimizer.

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pessimizer 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The logic of giving ethanol or fomepizole is to slow down the rate of production methanol's dangerous metabolic byproducts so less damage is done, nevertheless those dangerous metabolites are still produced.

Who cares if dangerous metabolites are "still produced" when the danger has been limited? It's like claiming that blood transfusions don't help with shock because the patient still lost the same amount of blood.

> Using ethanol is a last-ditch stand to try and take some minor control of an otherwise out of control situation.

This is some weird-ass over-elaborate synonym for antidote.

> There's nothing subtle about it—it's a blunderbuss approach that often doesn't work well because replacing one poison with a less toxic one is a pretty hit-and-miss process.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. This all reads like AI slop.

> Antidotes counteract poisons, that's not what happens when you give ethanol in methanol poisonings.

You literally give it to them to counteract the poison. You're using a idiosyncratic version of the word "counteract," which doesn't relate to the health or survival of the person poisoned, but has a lot to do with the absolute levels of "dangerous metabolites produced."

	▲	hilbert42 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		"This is some weird-ass over-elaborate synonym for antidote." I did not say or infer that ethanol should not be used in the treatment of methanol poisoning. Giving ethanol to counteract methanol poisoning is not a simple fix like giving naloxone for a herion OD (which works effectively in minutes), it's more complicated and often involves multiple procedures such as hemodialysis and strict monitoring of ethanol levels (assuming one knows what that level should be, ipso facto, how much methanol was consumed and whether it was coconsumed with ethanol—facts often not readily available in an emergency department). I suggest you read this, especially point 7 'Treatment': https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/12/12/924 The almost flippant assumption that ethanol is a fix all panacea for methanol poisoning by many who've posted here is just irresponsible. Fact is methanol OD is a major medical emergency and in no way should it be played down. If I have to be the bringer of unwelcome truths then so be it. Shooting the messenger generally makes things worse.

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dnnddidiej 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

vice versa

> Ethanol is the most commonly used antidote to block the metabolising of methanol. Ethanol works by competing with the metabolic breakdown of methanol, thereby preventing the accumulation of toxic byproducts.

MSF: https://methanolpoisoning.msf.org/en/for-health-professional...

I can see the ambiguity of my comment. I was trying to phrase as a riddle but can be interpreted both ways.

	▲	aqme28 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Same with antifreeze poisoning. If a kid drinks antifreeze, get him wasted to keep the liver busy.
	▲	froh 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		ah got it. thanks for clarifying!