Remix.run Logo
hilbert42 2 days ago

Where's the authority on that?

Ethanol can be used as a temporary measure in methanol poisoning as it temporarily outcompetes methanol in the metabolic process. So it's only useful until proper medical help arrives when better alternatives such as fomepizole are administered. Even then there is no guarantee of success.

Methanol is still metabolized to dangerous formaldehyde and formic acid by the liver's alcohol dehydrogenase. The logic of giving ethanol or fomepizole is to slow down the rate of production methanol's dangerous metabolic byproducts so less damage is done, nevertheless those dangerous metabolites are still produced.

Ethanol's first-pass metabolite is acetaldehyde and it is still toxic but not to the same degree as those of methanol.

It is incorrect to say ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning. Using ethanol is a last-ditch stand to try and take some minor control of an otherwise out of control situation. There's nothing subtle about it—it's a blunderbuss approach that often doesn't work well because replacing one poison with a less toxic one is a pretty hit-and-miss process.

Antidotes counteract poisons, that's not what happens when you give ethanol in methanol poisonings.

dnnddidiej 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It is technically an antidote though. Based on the definition of antidote.

btreecat a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where are the sources on your claims that ethenol is only a temporary or last ditch treatment?

hilbert42 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Suggest you read the link in my reply to pessimizer.

btreecat 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you don't want to provide a link and quote to the source, I'm going to treat it as it's unsourced.

If you want to claim the link and source are in another castle, I'm not playing games.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1306022/

> A 10% ethanol solution administered intravenously is a safe and effective antidote for severe methanol poisoning. Ethanol therapy is recommended when plasma methanol concentrations are higher than 20 mg per dl, when ingested doses are greater than 30 ml and when there is evidence of acidosis or visual abnormalities in cases of suspected methanol poisoning.

pessimizer 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The logic of giving ethanol or fomepizole is to slow down the rate of production methanol's dangerous metabolic byproducts so less damage is done, nevertheless those dangerous metabolites are still produced.

Who cares if dangerous metabolites are "still produced" when the danger has been limited? It's like claiming that blood transfusions don't help with shock because the patient still lost the same amount of blood.

> Using ethanol is a last-ditch stand to try and take some minor control of an otherwise out of control situation.

This is some weird-ass over-elaborate synonym for antidote.

> There's nothing subtle about it—it's a blunderbuss approach that often doesn't work well because replacing one poison with a less toxic one is a pretty hit-and-miss process.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. This all reads like AI slop.

> Antidotes counteract poisons, that's not what happens when you give ethanol in methanol poisonings.

You literally give it to them to counteract the poison. You're using a idiosyncratic version of the word "counteract," which doesn't relate to the health or survival of the person poisoned, but has a lot to do with the absolute levels of "dangerous metabolites produced."

hilbert42 3 hours ago | parent [-]

"This is some weird-ass over-elaborate synonym for antidote."

I did not say or infer that ethanol should not be used in the treatment of methanol poisoning.

Giving ethanol to counteract methanol poisoning is not a simple fix like giving naloxone for a herion OD (which works effectively in minutes), it's more complicated and often involves multiple procedures such as hemodialysis and strict monitoring of ethanol levels (assuming one knows what that level should be, ipso facto, how much methanol was consumed and whether it was coconsumed with ethanol—facts often not readily available in an emergency department).

I suggest you read this, especially point 7 'Treatment': https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/12/12/924

The almost flippant assumption that ethanol is a fix all panacea for methanol poisoning by many who've posted here is just irresponsible. Fact is methanol OD is a major medical emergency and in no way should it be played down.

If I have to be the bringer of unwelcome truths then so be it. Shooting the messenger generally makes things worse.