> If you want to argue from a power prospective then the US and Israel can just do whatever they want too

Yes, that’s exactly my point. any country can do whatever they want … within the limits of their powers.

What is currently stopping US/Israel from forcing Iran to open the strait of Hormuz?

I don’t believe they have the ability to take out enough of Iran’s missiles/drones to prevent Iran from exerting its control of the Strait.

> It’s a matter of principle

“ Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”

Thucydides

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thaumasiotes 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”

—Thucydides

You can't honestly attribute that quotation to Thucydides. The idea appears in his work, but he specifically attributes it to other unnamed parties. It receives this immediate response:

As we think, at any rate, it is expedient — we speak as we are obliged, since you enjoin us to let right alone and talk only of interest — that you should not destroy what is our common protection, the privilege of being allowed in danger to invoke what is fair and right, and even to profit by arguments not strictly valid if they can be got to pass current. And you are as much interested in this as any, as your fall would be a signal for the heaviest vengeance and an example for the world to meditate upon.

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ericmay 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

	▲	kadoban 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> Iran doesn’t control the straight though. It just has the ability to launch missiles at ships and such. There is a difference. There really isn't a difference. They can turn off the flow at will, they're the only ones who can, nobody can stop them. They control it.
	▲	albatross79 7 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		That's veto power, what other kind of control do they need?
	▲	oa335 7 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Sounds good - and the US can bomb Iran. Might makes right. Might doesn’t make “right” but it determines geopolitical realities. > Iran doesn’t control the straight though. Then why was Trump demanding that Iran “open the fuckin’ Strait”? “Transit volume through the Strait of Hormuz remains a fraction of what it was before the Iran conflict” https://maritime-executive.com/article/traffic-through-strai...
	▲	8note 6 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		its not particularly might makes right, but bargaining knowing that war is costly. iran could attack every ship that goes through the strait, but that would cost iran both in actual missiles/drones, and an opportunity cost of getting its own ships through, missing a potential toll, and missing potential benefits from being neighbor to rich states. Not to mention that the shots mean that other countries will want to respond even with might, most conflicts end in a negotiated settlement, and that approximates what each side of a conflict thinks would be the result of fighting the war, plus or minus some bargaining range. its still expensive for the mighty to fight the war, and better for everyone to accept the result of war without fighting see: the youtube channel "lines on maps" aka "william spaniel" to hear it from an expert in the field of crisis bargaining