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karim79 7 hours ago

I'm putting this[0] here just as a reminder of how horrible things can be and for basically nothing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack

acyou 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I used to attend elementary school on a military base. I didn't feel like a human shield at the time, then again I was more naive and had less life experience than I do now.

tw04 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You weren’t a human shield. It would have been very easy for the US and Israel to not have blown up a school, the attack was intentional.

Notice they had 0 issues precisely striking the building housing Iranian leadership when this whole thing started. They didn’t “accidentally” hit the grocery store two blocks away.

ALittleLight 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For what reason would they attack a single school? Some strikes being well some doesn't mean others can't be mistaken.

oa335 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Some Israeli’s believe that they should kill the children of their enemies:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netany...

“Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Maybe an extremist Israeli put together that particular target list?

ra 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same reason they're attacking universities, medical research labs, power stations, bridges, hospitals, paramedic teams, civilian rescue teams...

user34283 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

It is amazing how readily some people believe we target civilians, often based on the words of actual terrorists.

With this particular incident with apparent US strikes on a school adjacent to a military complex, and formerly part of that military complex, you would think it must be obvious to any reasonable person that we did not knowingly target a school.

Yet here we are.

ra 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Who are these actual terrorists you speak of?

subroutine 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From the Wikipedia article...

For planning Operation Epic Fury, the US military utilized the Maven Smart System, an artificial intelligence software designed to streamline the targeting process and greatly reduce the amount of personnel involved in it. Capable of producing 1,000 target packages in one hour, with the use of the system the US military said it had struck 6,000 targets in Iran during the first two weeks of the war.

...it goes on to say...

The [NYT] inquiry suggested that the school was likely targeted due to outdated coordinates provided by the Defense Intelligence Agency

Advanced rockets bolted onto mainframes guided by data from Palantir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Maven#Technology

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
selcuka 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> For what reason would they attack a single school?

Couldn't it be to terrorise the other side while still being able to claim that it was a mistake? Remember that the school was hit by three distinct strikes.

wisty 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So you think there was a conspiracy to target a school? Who do you think did it? Why? What was their goal?

I think either an intelligence failure, or a mistake or a miss is more likely. Maybe missiles don't always hit where they were meant to go. Especially if there is anti missile defences (which Iran is likely to have). Maybe Iran anti-air hit the school, or sent a US missile off course?

vincnetas 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

article mentions that this was triple tap. i doubt that missiles missed three times hitting same spot.

ra 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More than a conspiracy, they actually did attack the school - twice - about 30 minute apart (double tap).

They would have had live video feed from drones, and images sent from the first tomahawk missile for target confirmation. Yhey knew exactly what they were targeting and hitting.

karim79 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm...not seeing how the comment you're responding to "blames the victims."

karim79 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"The Shajareh Tayyebeh girls' elementary school in southern Minab was attended by both boys and girls, taught on separate floors.[9] According to locals, the school was previously a military facility.[10] Its location was near[c] the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex which included the headquarters of the Asif Brigade of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGCN).[13] As of early 2026, the school had existed as a civilian institution more than 10 years, close to but separate from the IRGCN compound."The Shajareh Tayyebeh girls' elementary school in southern Minab was attended by both boys and girls, taught on separate floors.[9] According to locals, the school was previously a military facility.[10] Its location was near[c] the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex which included the headquarters of the Asif Brigade of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGCN).[13] As of early 2026, the school had existed as a civilian institution more than 10 years, close to but separate from the IRGCN compound.

For more than ten years. That's Palantir caching for you.

throwaway290 7 hours ago | parent [-]

military bases are targets. I don't know how you jump from that to victim blaming like little kids had a say in where to build a school or where to go to school or whether to shoot rockets. it's a tragedy.

JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> military bases are targets

Sure. But when they're next to schools, you try to avoid the school or school hours. Not doing that isn't just mean, it's strategically self defeating.

InexSquirrel 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I'm not following what they mean there.

trhway 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Today on several news media were a story that people of Iran were called by the government and formed human shields at the bridges and power plants that Trump threatened to bomb if no deal reached by the deadline.

https://www.ms.now/news/iran-youths-protect-power-plants-sau...

Sounds like a blatant violation of all the conventions and a war crime.

amluto 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s hard to imagine that international law actually intends to consider civilians hanging out as “human shields” at civilian sites to be a war crime.

gpm 6 hours ago | parent [-]

No it's not. International law is generally exceptionally clear that one war crime doesn't justify another, and using civilians as human shields is about as core a war-crime as war-crimes get.

amluto 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I tried to look it up: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule97#ti...

> The prohibition of using human shields in the Geneva Conventions, Additional Protocol I and the Statute of the International Criminal Court are couched in terms of using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations.[18] Most examples given in military manuals, or which have been the object of condemnations, have been cases where persons were actually taken to military objectives in order to shield those objectives from attacks. The military manuals of New Zealand and the United Kingdom give as examples the placing of persons in or next to ammunition trains.

The situation in Iran is not this. The suggestion was that humans might volunteer to go to non-military sites.

As an extreme hypothetical, are humans living in their homes acting as human shields for those homes? How about people at school? How about people parading on a bridge? Does it become different if someone threatens to blow up a bridge and people parade there in response?

gpm 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Eh, the quoted text, and also the literal text of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 28 [1], doesn't qualify "certain points or areas" as only "military sites". While the other side should only be attacking military sites I don't see how that could possibly justify protecting non-military sites with human shields.

> As an extreme hypothetical, are humans living in their homes acting as human shields for those homes? How about people at school? How about people parading on a bridge?

Generally speaking I read this as not, because they aren't being "used to" render those points immune from attack, they just happen to be doing so. Hypothetically if you were to rush civilians back to their homes in an evacuated town to protect it from an attack - or as you suggest organize parades on bridges that are threatened - that would seem to meet the "used to" requirement.

(Good discussion though)

[1] https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/art...

> Article 28 - Prohibition of using human shields

> The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

oa335 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://youtu.be/u7J3_EX7rQk

I think this was done voluntarily as a demonstration of sacrifice and nationalism.

vincnetas 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

When Lithuania was fighting for independence from USSR civilians gathered around key government buildings to protect them. in a sense they were human shields as none of them were armed. but they did it voluntarily. this happens when you threaten total annihilation of your homeland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events

oa335 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Threatening total annihilation was possibly the dumbest move Trump could have made.

“ Soldiers when in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm. If they are in the heart of a hostile country, they will show a stubborn front. If there is no help for it, they will fight hard."

Sun Tzu

trhway 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

These civilians did this without government coercion. Big difference.

vincnetas 5 hours ago | parent [-]

how do you know that iranians are forced to do this now by their government and not doing this in support of their country? do you think there are gunmen taking them to the bridges?

trhway 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It was a government call. I grew up in USSR and know very well how those government "calls to volunteer" work in totalitarian regimes. Especially in a wartime country where even in peacetime they would kill people even just for being incorrectly dressed.

Anyway, as i said in the other comment, it is actually not that important how all those people got there. The key thing here is that it was a deliberate government act of human shield creation.

vincnetas 3 hours ago | parent [-]

what a coincidence i too grew up in USSR and my parents and friends were part of above mentioned human shield. And i can tell first hand that there was no coercion. just call to action.

trhway 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It said it was call of the government. Bloody authocratic government. A call you can’t refuse.

oa335 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s certainly not the vibe I got from that video, nor the several others I’ve seen of Iranis at power plants and bridges.

trhway 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Look at recordings from other totalitarian regimes - enthusiastic people doing government bidding. The key is deliberate act of human shield creation, not the specific way to do it.

RiverStone 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My wife is Iranian and I know many Iranian expats, and all my in-laws are in Iran.

This attack on the school comes up all the time as a talking point. And I will tell you exactly how most Iranians react: they find it weird that you’ll talk about this school, but you won’t talk about the thousands of protesters killed by the regime.

Yes. People die in war. It’s sad. But most Iranians will say “whether we go to war or not Iranians are being killed” and it’s better to fight for regime change than to just accept the status quo.

Imagine being against the American Revolution because some innocent civilians will get killed? Yes, people die in war, but if there’s a chance for something better than it’s definitely worth it!

Every Iranian I know thinks it’s worth it and they danced in the street when Khamenei was killed.

anonymous_user9 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Imagine being against the American Revolution because some innocent civilians will get killed?

What was so great about the American revolution anyway? It's not like it gave any average people the right to vote, and it arguably preserved slavery for an extra 30 years.

zhoujing204 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

dyauspitr 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because it seems nigh impossible to actually get the 18-27 crowd to actually go and vote. Doesn’t matter if their life sucks, they just can’t be bothered to go do it. Of course you’ll get people that try and deflect blame and say that “my vote doesn’t really change anything” but these people know it does change things and they still just stay at home on voting day.

Groxx 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

tbh I think that vote would succeed, if one happened right now. his approval poll results are abysmally bad.

what do you think the vote would be, though? "we don't like him"? last I checked, change.org-petition-style voting didn't have much of an effect on country laws.

postsantum 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And some percent will say they deserved it

pstuart 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Too many are either disinterested in politics because it's ugly, or mad that their assigned candidate betrayed one of their values (e.g., genocide in Gaza). I think a lot of younger people just don't want to be bothered.

Schmerika 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Being against genocide isn't a "value". It's not idealistic, or naive either.

It's a duty. Moral, and legal; domestic and international.

Drawing a hard red line at genocide is damn near the very least any human must demand from their leader; perhaps only exceeded by "don't threaten entire civilizations with nuclear weapons".

Same with prosecuting rapist insurrectionists, and going after billionaire's child-trafficking/murdering blackmail rings. These are not "nice to haves" - ya simply gotta do it.

If you're not "mad" when people fail to do these things, then are you really "interested in politics", or are you simply caught in some kind of us-vs-them death spiral?

JohnTHaller 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A good chunk of America watch "news" crafted by right-wing billionaires and think he's doing a bang-up job.

ModernMech 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because another ~11% of Americans think the Democrats would be worse.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

People don't seem really engaged in politics. They find it a frustrating waste of time because the news doesn't bother explaining anything to them, so they don't see the results of elections. They say both sides are the same. They don't take part in local elections. A mix of taught helplessness, learned helplessness, laziness, and the fact that if you're a white guy gas prices might affect you more than foreign wars and death squads

greenavocado 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Both factions are filled with criminals that hate America (but LOVE Israel) and solely seek to exploit Americans as tax cows and organ donors. I take the third position: I'm a decline enjoyer and prepper.

alhamduliIblis 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

noosphr 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is the counter argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

Here's hoping the regime is destabilised enough to topple by itself.

hrimfaxi 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How is this in any way a counter argument to the US bombing a school? That their own government would stoop to such lengths gives free reign to foreign governments?

Manuel_D 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The idea is that incurring a few hundred civilians deaths to liberate Iranians from a regime that slaughtered them by the thousands or tens of thousands is a net positive for human life. Of course this only works as a justification if the Iranians actually are liberated front their regime, which I don't think they will.

But the justification, if the liberation actually transpires, is sound. An order of magnitude more French and Dutch died at the hands of Allied bombing and shelling in 1944. I think most agree the the upside of being liberated from Germany makes the Allied landings a net positive, though.

But to reiterate, I really doubt the revolutionary guard is going to lose control of Iran.

RiverStone 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This aligns with conversations I’ve had with Iranians. They really do believe that the ends justify the means here if they can destroy the regime.

jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Iranians abroad or Iranians in Iran?

Because the ones abroad don't have a lot to lose and much to gain. The ones in Iran have a lot to lose as well.

noosphr 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Like being killed if they said they want regime change.

jamesgill 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Congratulations for rediscovering Machiavelli. “The ends justify the means” is such a winning philosophy.

renewiltord 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The ends do alter the acceptability of the means. E.g. if I offered you the means of “pay money to flip coin to make money as many times as possible” and the numbers involved were $50k if heads, lose $1k if tails and $50 buy in that’s way different if the numbers involved were $1k if heads, lose $50k if tails and $500k buy in.

If you can’t alter your reasoning to include outcomes then you will make poorer decisions.

pstuart 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Of course this only works as a justification

If killing those kids was instrumental in a greater good, only then is it worth being philosophical about. From what I've seen, they were too eager with the bang bang boom boom to actually double check that it was a valid target.

KennyBlanken 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Double checked?

They fed ancient intelligence into an AI which spit out a target list that nobody seems to have checked, period.

eesmith 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The situation is hardly comparable.

The French and Dutch were members of the Allies, with Charles de Gaulle as leader of the Free-French forces and Queen Wilhelmina the head of the Dutch government-in-exile, both in London. Both wanted the allies to get the Germans out of their countries.

There is no government-in-exile calling for the bombing of Iran as a method for liberation.

Just as Laos did not call for the US to drop some 2 million tons on that country - more than were dropped on Japan, Germany and Britain during World War II - resulting in the deaths of over 200,000 people, as part of the US's ineffective attempt to "liberate" North Vietnam.

stanfordkid 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No one wants to liberate Iran. Israel just wants to continue committing genocide and apartheid without any opposition. Iran arms Hezbollah and Hamas, the main forms of Palestinian resistance. The whole point of this operation is to decimate those groups so ethnic cleansing can continue without any resistance. Israel could care less about the Irani people.

You are very naive if you think the IRGC truly killed 10's of thousands of it's own people. Israel openly talks about Mossad organizing and supporting the coup, and good old Donny has admitted they have given weapons to organized resistance.

I estimate that many of the death numbers come from armed resistance being killed by the IRGC, not ordinary peaceful protestors. I also think armed resistance killed many Irani citizens. There is obviously fog of war here. The thousands of deaths were likely inflated and obfuscated.

Look at the coups we have backed in the middle east (including formerly in Iran which is what originally led to the Islamic revolution) -- and you will see a pattern. Both US and Israel provide material support to groups like ISIS or actors like Bin Laden. An Al-Qaeda fighter is literally the head of Syria now thanks to Israel.

I don't love Hamas, IRGC or Hezbollah, I don't like their ideology. But it is myopic to think they exist in a vaccum.

bcrosby95 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wouldn't personally do so, but arguably those tens of thousands rest at our feet considering the current government was political blowback from the US and UK regime changing Iran back in the '50s.

It's even less likely to work because Trump has already claimed, publicly, to arming the protestors. That already makes any regime change illegitimate. They're all foreign backed agitators.

I bring it up because this shit is messy.

Invictus0 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

int_19h 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Accidents are common in war

That's precisely why you don't just start wars to show the world that your dick is still bigger than everybody else's.

sho_hn 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Accidents are common in war;

As an engineer a substantial amount of my professional effort is spent on preventing them. They aren't acceptable.

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Nobody is saying they are acceptable. But it'd be naive to say there's ever zero risk. What's your brilliant plan? Let Iran have nukes?

cogman10 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> Nobody is saying they are acceptable.

Saying "Accidents happen in war" is absolutely a way of saying "Accidents are acceptable in war".

That's what's being said here. Otherwise, it's a useless thing to say.

> What's your brilliant plan? Let Iran have nukes?

There was no evidence that Iran was pursuing nukes. Certainly no evidence that they were `n days` away from getting nukes.

My "brilliant" plan would have been the negotiations that were happening where Iran agreed to pretty strict monitoring and stipulations on nuclear fuel development.

The "Iran was getting nukes" rhetoric needs real evidence that was actually happening not "we think that might be happening because Trump said so."

alex_sf 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> Saying "Accidents happen in war" is absolutely a way of saying "Accidents are acceptable in war".

Bridges fall down sometimes. I don't think it's acceptable. It's a statement of fact. There are always going to be mistakes, in every field and in pursuit of every goal. Your objection and implications aren't particularly charitable here.

> My "brilliant" plan would have been the negotiations that were happening where Iran agreed to pretty strict monitoring and stipulations on nuclear fuel development.

Iran was not complying with the monitoring requirements.

> The "Iran was getting nukes" rhetoric needs real evidence that was actually happening not "we think that might be happening because Trump said so."

Intelligence agencies under both Biden and Trump (and since at least the 90s) have repeatedly confirmed it.

This isn't really a question or doubt any reasonable person can have. There can be an argument about how close they are at any given moment, but they are actively pursuing nuclear weapons.

cogman10 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> Intelligence agencies under both Biden and Trump (and since at least the 90s) have repeatedly confirmed it.

Cite your source. When did this happen under Biden?

alex_sf 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This isn't buried or hard to find, but in good faith:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ODNI-Un...

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/congressional-testimo...

tdeck 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These kinds of accidents seem to be particularly common in wars waged by Israel for some reason.

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Accidents are common in war

Sure. The point is this was a particularly tragic accident. And it happened for, from the looks of the ceasefire conditions, jack shit.

More pointedly: if it was an accident, it should be investigated. Honestly. Openly. Not only is it horrible, bombing children is a strategic blunder in a war for hearts and minds.

michelsedgh 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

sali0 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The school was bombed by US Tomahawk missiles, twice via a double tap so the medical personnel were killed too.

It's absolutely absurd to think this would be caused by a misfire from Iran.

hilbertseries 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Investigation isn’t finished, but it was almost certainly the US. If it was Iran Trump or Hegeseth would not have been able to contain themselves.

stouset 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The American commander in chief was, as of yesterday, vowing to end their entire civilization.

noosphr 6 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

6 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
8note 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

i dont imagine spending a bunch on the military and oil is nearly enough to topple the US government.

what case does it make that the constitution needs to be abandoned?

KennyBlanken 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Aside from the fact that the events you linked to have no connection whatsoever to why the US started attacking Iran, there is absolutely no reality or moral code in which "a government kills a couple hundred of its citizens" justifies another government on the other side of the world blowing up a hundred plus schoolchildren and other civilians.

mindslight 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Here's hoping the regime is destabilised enough to topple by itself.

It's looking like this is the exact type of magical thinking of the most useless "president" ever. Meanwhile in the real world, such things take hard work.

lern_too_spel 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The counter argument is missing some justification. Is it reasonable to go killing people on the hope that something good will come out of it? Is there no less violent way to achieve those objectives? Do we really think that people will organize a toppling while they're being bombed without Internet access? Do we think they'll topple the current regime for one that is less antagonistic to Israel and the US after the bombings?

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This is the counter argument

When the French helped us during the Revolutionary War, they didn't shore bombard the colonists' kids because it would have been bad and counterproductive.

pphysch 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is black propaganda, not a counterargument.

At most there were a couple thousand casualties from violent riots that involved armed gangs (or sleeper cells if you want to go that route).

There were not "60,000" peaceful protestors executed by the government, as Trump claimed yesterday without evidence. That is murderous propaganda, blood libel intended to deflect from the actual mass murder of civilians by American forces e.g. the Minab school.

It was a narrative specifically designed to induce comments like yours.

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> basically nothing

So we should have let Iran have nukes? How many lives would have been lost then? They certainly have no problem purposely bombing civilians in non combatant countries.

idle_zealot 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> So we should have let Iran have nukes? How many lives would have been lost then?

Fewer, because we would've been deterred from attacking them. Unless we decided to risk nuclear war, I guess.

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent [-]

US doesn't have to engage for Iran to use nukes. But of course we should prevent that from becoming a realistic scenario?

idle_zealot 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> US doesn't have to engage for Iran to use nukes

Sure, in a purely physical sense, I suppose they could launch a nuke, triggering MAD and Israel's Samson Doctrine and ending human civilization for no reason. Currently I think Israel, the US, North Korea, and Russia have a higher (though still low) risk of doing that. In that order, by the way, though I could probably be convinced to bump Russia up higher.

tartoran 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nukes are not really for actual use but for deterrence so likely no lives would have been lost. Israel has nukes and they don't use them unless somebody attacks them with nukes. Same with other countries. Ideally both Israel and Iran as well as North Korea, maybe also Pakistan and India should not have nukes. And even more ideal it would be if nobody had them but the cat's out of the bag already.

brightball 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Iran has repeatedly stated their intent to use them.

platinumrad 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They've also stated at various times that they believe first use or any use to be against Islamic law.

I don't find any of these statements to be particularly credible, but I also don't think they're going to strap the first bomb they make to the closest missile they find and immediately send it at Tel Aviv when it surely means the total destruction of the Iranian state.

freefrog1234aa 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Iran has repeatedly stated they will not develop nuclear weapons.

vincnetas 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

do you remember what usa president stated just couple of days ago? to destroy whole country. didnt it sounded credible enough?

throwafffff 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

India, The biggest democratic country should not have nukes but its ok for a bunch of colonizers and authoritarian state like china to have.

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

tartoran 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, I'm not saying that, how do you extrapolate my position from there. It would good if Iran continue not to have nukes but also it would be a great example for the region if Israel didn't have them either. If we allow Israel to have them we're applying a double standard. Any unhinged country should not have them.

annexrichmond 6 hours ago | parent [-]

There's not much precedent to get a powerful, vulnerable country to willingly disarm their nukes. It's fair to say Israel shouldn't have them but I'd be far more uncomfortable with Iran

All their leaders have repeatedly called for the elimination of Israel and t that must be "wiped off the map" or "erased from the page of time"

They have a much more abhorrent track record of domestic repression, state-sponsored terrorism, and explicit elimination-ist rhetoric toward Israel makes an Iranian nuclear capability far more destabilizing.

A nuclear Iran would likely embolden its proxies and heighten the risk of catastrophic escalation in a region where they have actively worked through proxies to encircle and attack Israel for decades

platinumrad 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have it on good authority that Hitler didn't want Iran to have nukes. Are you siding with Hitler??

annexrichmond 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure. Hitler was also a vegetarian. Is that really your best argument?

albedoa 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Is that really your best argument?

(That is your argument.)

platinumrad 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is "something something Hitler" your best argument?

annexrichmond 6 hours ago | parent [-]

OP basically said every country is the same, has the same motive, so therefore it's ok for them to have nukes if others have them. That couldn't be more naive, and the Nazi regime is a prime example.

platinumrad 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> Ideally both Israel and Iran as well as North Korea, maybe also Pakistan and India should not have nukes.

I assume this applies to the big H as well! Their follow up was in the context of a very different world than that of WWII.

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> we should have let Iran have nukes?

What part of this war has made Iran less likely to get a nuclear weapon?

There could have been a good war in Iran. A coalition of nations going in to secure the uranium. It would have been messy. But it would have had a clean objective.

tartoran 7 hours ago | parent [-]

As objective yes but whose lives would be spared for this objective? Messy is relative to policies. Aren't other ways to attain this objective other than through war? I really think there were attempts and progress in that direction.

albatross79 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If Israel can have them, yes. Ideally, neither Israel nor Iran would have them.

tabiv 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I thought Iran's nuclear capability was destroyed in the June 2025 bombings?

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent [-]

They were able to move and hide a lot of the enriched uranium ahead of those bombings. Not all of it was destroyed.

zzrrt 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think that would be more believable, or at least the US/Israel would be more supportable in this, if they hadn't testily insisted on terms like "obliterated" and "set back by years" several months ago. You can only cry "nuke" so many times in a year. https://www.whitehouse.gov/releases/2025/06/irans-nuclear-fa...

8note 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

does iran even want nukes?

they have a religious law against making or using them, and theyve been sitting at "they could make a nuke within a week" for the past 20 years or more

it feels like people are falling for iran's bargaining chip - they want people to think they could make one, but not actually make one

sali0 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There was zero evidence they were close to a nuke. In fact, they've been alleged to be weeks away from a nuke for over 20 years. And the accusations come from the ones with the illegal nukes themselves!

slater 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do we "let" Israel have nukes?

zhoujing204 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Iran shouldn't have nukes, but starting a war—burning billions of dollars a day, killing kids and innocent civilians, and leveling bridges and universities—is objectively the worst possible way to prevent it.

The JCPOA under Obama actually did a solid job of constraining their nuclear development. That was the pragmatic approach, but Trump just unilaterally scrapped the deal. He doesn't have an actual strategy, maybe just "concepts of a plan".

wat10000 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This regime has been around for half a century. We supposedly destroyed their nuclear program last summer. And somehow their nuclear potential just became a war-worthy threat in February? Come on. Don’t tell me you actually believe that shit.

Unless we actually invade, all this war will do is demonstrate to Iran that obtaining nuclear weapons is an existential necessity for them, and kick the program into high gear. Oh, and provide them with plenty of funding for it due to their newfound ability to collect tolls for a vital shipping chokepoint.

annexrichmond 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> We supposedly destroyed their nuclear program last summer. And somehow their nuclear potential just became a war-worthy threat in February?

What news are you even reading? You are terribly misinformed or out of touch. Not all of it was destroyed. A lot of enriched uranium was saved. The IAEA still could not verify the stockpile's location, size, or composition due to denied access. Iran refused full inspections post-strikes.

The rest of your post is pure conjecture and nonsense.

platinumrad 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's pure conjecture that they are now collecting tolls from ships that transit the Strait of Hormuz? You don't think they're going to sprint for nukes at any cost now?

wat10000 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The guy who said their nuclear program was destroyed last summer is the same guy who says we have to go to war to stop them from developing nuclear weapons now.

Do I believe it was actually destroyed? No. Do I believe the guy who said it was? No. Do I start believing that guy now that he says there’s an imminent threat? Also no.

CapricornNoble 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> What news are you even reading? You are terribly misinformed or out of touch.

What news are YOU reading?

https://time.com/article/2026/03/18/tulsi-gabbard-iran-nucle...

"As a result of Operation Midnight Hammer, Iran’s nuclear enrichment program was obliterated. There has been no efforts since then to try to rebuild their enrichment capability. The entrances to the underground facilities that were bombed have been buried and shuttered with cement," Gabard wrote in an opening statement ahead of the hearing.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/headlines/2026/03/19/ken...

Joe Kent, who made big news when he stepped down on Tuesday as director of the National Counterterrorism Center, said in an interview with Tucker Carlson on Wednesday that intelligence assessments did not show Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States or was close to developing a nuclear weapon, undercutting central justifications for the military action.

saltyoldman 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Evil dictator who killed millions of people in his lifetime is also now dead.

platinumrad 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

He was 86 and is now, unfortunately, a beloved martyr rather than the symbol of an old and decaying regime.

dirasieb 6 hours ago | parent [-]

>beloved

by whom? ROFL, good luck substantiating this claim

are we ignoring the fact that he massacred countless people for protesting against him THIS YEAR?

platinumrad 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Trust me, I wish it weren't the case. Nobody likes being bombed and he's now a symbol of resistance. Most of the urban middle class has always hated the mullahs and various ethnic groups have conflict with the state as a whole, but Khamanei had and has support from basically every other element of society.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/polarised-ira...

[2] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/rare-moment-indias...

[3] https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2026/3/1/thousands-in-iran...

mcphage 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Replaced by his son.

tartoran 6 hours ago | parent [-]

>Replaced by his son.

Replaced by an enraged son whose whole family had been killed in front of him. Basically Iran's Ayatolah is now younger and angrier. Thanks to Trump and Israel's Trump.

Iranian people were about to topple their own regime some months ago. Now the regime is cemented again since Iran was attacked indiscriminately. Again, thank the 2 Trumps.

dirasieb 6 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

stickfigure 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> for basically nothing

* The people responsible for murdering ten thousand protesters are now dead.

* The IRGC's military capability is significantly degraded.

* Their nuclear program is likely set back even further. It's hard to get real information here but we should assume that supporting facilities were high on the target list.

That's not nothing. From a strict utilitarian perspective, it's probably "worth it". Which sucks, but I haven't heard a better plan.

8note 5 hours ago | parent [-]

i dont think those are nearly as clearcut as suggested.

some of the iranian side for events that resulted in a bunch of death have been killed... while also killing a bunch mkre iranians, but have the americans/israelis that armed the protestors into terrorists and incided them to violence been killed?

i think theres enough police, mossad, and cia folks left to do that again and again until the protestors are all gone.

similarly, its blatantly obvious for everyone that the US destoryed the iranian capabilities that dont matter. iran is still capable enough to seter both putting american ships in the strait, and boots on the ground, so that degradation is not significant. optimization without profiling.

from a strict utilitarian perspective, definitely not worth it. the costs were extraordinarily expensive and havent been fully paid yet, and the profits for the US is a worse position than they started it

theres some light benefits to the gulf and ukraine in that the gulf realizes that they can spend much less on defense by buying from ukraine, but that pales in comparison to the costs paid in destroyed oil infrastructure and interceptors that could have gone to ukraine