As a European, this seems normal?

When someone is fired, they generally stop working immediately while getting paid through the notice period.

In the US there is no notice period. In every state (with the exception of Montana), employees are "At Will" only. There is no notice period, or severance pay required by law. Health insurance goes with your job, too, as do any other benefits (something called COBRA lets you pay to continue your health insurance coverage for a few months with the expectation you'll have found a new job and/or coverage)

In the US, one day you can have a job, the next none and you'd better hope you've got enough money saved up to cover rent/mortgage, food etc.

That was by far the biggest culture shock when I moved to the states, and really acted as the big "Oh shit, it really is a government by the businesses, for the businesses".

	▲	gamblor956 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		The U.S. has a 60-day notice requirement for mass layoffs, per the federal WARN Act. However, the required notice period can be waived by paying (at least) 60 days salary/wages. Many states copied the statute. There are some exceptions, like a company going out of business or natural disasters, but those don't apply here.

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Aurornis 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have to be honest that I'm confused by the comment, too. Including the edit about how being out of work would be traumatic, as if losing a job was unique to the United States.

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niek_pas 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

My point was that going from (let's say) 'employed, productive member of the workforce, with social relationships at work' to 'sitting at home collecting unemployment' with no transition, no coaching, in the scope of 5 minutes seems like a traumatic rupture.

(I'm not saying I _know_ better, just how I think I would _experience_ such a thing.)

Losing a job happens everywhere, but there are different ways to handle it, I guess.

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Aurornis 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I've been laid off. It's not fun and there a lot of emotions to process at first.

Let me tell you, though. All of the gestures that come from the company doing the layoff like coaching services or transition resources felt pretty useless. They were actually trying, but everything in it seemed more like it was to soothe their conscience than to help me out.

When other people get laid off I recommend they try not to put a lot of expectations into any transition services provided by their ex-employer because your time is better invested in your own job search.

	▲	bombcar 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		The best "layoff" support I've received has been early notice (e.g., you're laid off at the end of next month, but we give fuck-all cares if you even bother coming in anymore, feel free to) and personal support from managers/those remaining behind. Anything an employer can do at scale can be reduced to cash, and cash is king.

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Shocka1 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Generally losing your well paying tech job in the US is terrible and it is definitely traumatic for people. I've fortunately never been part of one, but at my first real career job at a well known tech company I watched co-workers eliminated like this. Not only was it traumatic for them, it was traumatic for our team as well. They received very nice severance packages, but they still had to find another job within 6 months so they could keep the lights on in their homes. It was a great learning lesson for me. All my career moves after that have been preemptive and from the standpoint that I'm on offense at all times. Never feeling stagnant in a position, keeping options open, etc...

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simsla 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where I live, your employer basically has to give you notice (weeks to months, depending where you live). It's common for that notice period to turn into "garden leave" though, i.e. get paid but don't show up.

Mass layoffs, or RIFs, operate under slightly different rules, but I still saw a stark difference between US and EU employees when I went through one at a different corp.

US accounts were deactivated same day. EU employees were given until end of week to look over the proposed terms etc.

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draw_down 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

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sweezyjeezy 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> After careful consideration of Oracle’s current business needs, we have made the decision to eliminate your role as part of a broader organizational change.

That is being laid off, not being fired - big difference. Being fired means being let go for poor performance / bad behaviour. No severance or grace period is necessary there (will be written in the contract). Being made redundant, particularly a redundancy of this size is quite well protected in EU. Typically negotiations between HR and representatives of the laid off group are required, you will continue to work (officially at least) until negotiations are over, as you are not officially out yet. This usually takes a few weeks.

I can tell you this from personal experience...

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on_the_train 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No they don't? You keep working for 2-10 months until you can leave whatever your contact says

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macki0 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The way this email is worded this would more likely be classified as a Redundancy as opposed to a Firing. So different laws/rules would apply