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wilsonnb3 3 days ago

Just curious, how was SQL Server perceived at the time compared to Sybase and Oracle? I know it originated as a port of Sybase.

zerkten 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

SQL Server 2000 was well received in the segments that mattered as a challenger. Oracle was in first place running on Unix. However, it was viewed as expensive and the procurement experience was regarded as unpleasant. People wanted competition even if they didn't think SQL Server, or another alternative, could unseat Oracle for the most important stuff.

Windows was really picking up steam and there was a move to web development in the Windows-based developer space. Visual Basic and Delphi were popular but desktop development had peaked. ASP was for building your apps and SQL Server was the natural backend. SQL Server fed off this wave. It wasn't dislodging Oracle, but rather than every app being built on Oracle, more apps started to use SQL Server as the backend.

Then ASP.NET appeared on the scene and demand grew even more. It was a well-integrated combo that appealed to a lot of shops. I started my career in a global pharma and there was a split between tech budget. IT was a Windows shop for many reasons and ran as much on SQL Server as possible. R&D was Unix/Linux with Oracle. There was a real battle going on in the .NET vs Java (how about some EJB 1) and the databases followed the growth curves of both rather than competing against each other.

The SQL Slammer worm brought a lot of attention to the product. There were instances running everywhere and IT didn't expect so much adoption. Back then you had a lot more servers running inside offices than you do today. My office was much like my homelab today. This validated the need so the patches got applies, IT got involved in the upkeep, and adoption continued to grow.

Oracle's sales folk and lawyers were horrible to deal with. I had some experience of this directly as they tried pushing Java-related products and my boss dragged me into the evals. One of my in-laws was outside counsel in the IT space doing work with enterprise-sized companies. He claims they are the worst company he's ever had to deal with and wouldn't delegate any decision-making locally which endlessly dragged out deals. They had a good product but felt they could get away with anything. Over time he saw customers run lots of taskforces to chip away Oracle usage. This accelerated with SaaS because you could eliminate the app AND Oracle in one swoop.

gregw2 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

MS SQL Server was a cheaper, friendlier plugin replacement for Sybase in the early 2000s.

I built apps in an active-active bidirectional replication telecom Sybase environment and was deeply involved in migrating it to MS SQL server in the early 2000s. I remember a fair amount of paranoia and effort around the transition as our entire business and customers' phone calls depended on it (for "reasons") but in hindsight it went quite smoothly and there were no regrets afterwards.

The Microsoft went and added a nice BI stack to the whole thing which added a new dimension of value creation at a new low price point.

seanhunter 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember talking to one tech leader at the time who described it as "surprisingly good, for a microsoft product" which sort of summed it up. But it had similar characteristics to sybase except more so because you had to run it on an NT server (iirc) and so there was an even harder cap on the scale of hardware you could run it on, whereas you could run oracle on really top-end sparc hardware that was way more powerful than anything that ran windows.

wil421 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends if the director or VP liked Microsoft or not. I’ve worked at places that loved SQL Server and Microsoft server products in general. Others did not use them anywhere in their datacenter and wouldn’t have considered them. Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft were very dependent on if the people in charged liked them. Not so much technical merits.

billywhizz 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

SQL Server was very good and used in a lot of enterprises. ime the decision between Oracle and SQL Server tended to be down to whether the IT department or company was a "Microsoft Shop" or not. There were a lot of things that came free with SQL Server licenses and it had really nice integrations with other Microsoft enterprise systems software and desktop software.

Oracle was definitely seen as the more mature and resilient (and expensive!) RDBMS in all the years I worked in that space. It also ran on Unix/Linux whereas SQL Server was windows only. Many enterprises didn't like running Microsoft servers, for lots of (usually good) reasons.

fauigerzigerk 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

MS SQL Server was forked from Sybase in 1993. Not sure how much the code had diverged by 2000. Informix was also a contender back then.

trueno 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

we still have an informix db for an old early 2000s application we have to support. shit runs on centos5 lmao. it's actually not too bad, around v12 there's cdc capabilities (requires you to build your own agent service to consume the data) that made the exercise of real time replicating the app db in our edw a cakewalk. which ironically has greatly extended the lifespan of the application since no one has to query informix anymore directly.

ibms docs and help sites suck butt tho.

minkeymaniac 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

7 was a rewrite, from c to c++, also went from 2k pages to 8k pages

fipar 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My experience at the time was that it was perceived as not serious enough and lacking important features. If my memory isn't very bad, I believe as late as 2000 SQL Server still only supported AFTER triggers.

In my experience in the late 90s and early 00s, besides Oracle and Sybase, DB/2 and Informix were also regarded as good. Oracle was considered the best though.

minkeymaniac 3 days ago | parent [-]

2000 for sure had instead of triggers.. I used them :-)

fipar 3 days ago | parent [-]

Thanks for the clarification, I guess my memory is very bad after all! :)

Do you remember if that was a recent addition?

Full disclosure: I was quite the newbie back then and most of what I "new" about SQL Server was what the more experienced coworkers told me. This was a very IBM-biased place so I'm not surprised they would have stuck to some old shortcoming, like people who still talk about bad MySQL defaults that have been changed for at least 10 years.

Up until that job (which was my second Actual Formal Job), all my DB experience had been with either dBase (I think III plus or IV) and access, so this was a whole new world with me.

It was through MS SQL Server that a colleague taught me about backups and recovery, after I ran an update in prod but forgot to include the where clause ... :)

chasil 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a very short comment on SQL Server's code improvements (post-Sybase).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18464429

The top comment in the post is a long complaint about the code quality of the Oracle database (worth a read).

CaptainZapp 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

SQL Server was Sybase until (I think) version 4.9, just rebranded as Microsoft SQL Server.

Then the two versions split and I don't think that any of the Sybase source code remains in what is SQL Server today.

That said, a lot of the concepts (like a significant number of system stored procedures) and also TSQL remain almost the same, with small differences (except for system functions, which SQL Server has a lot more functionality).

When you come from the Sybase world getting a start on SQL Server is quite straight forward when it comes to handling the database.

Internals and other low level nuts and bolts differ nowadays, of course.

pjmlp 2 days ago | parent [-]

I wrote a connector for Sybase back in 2000, based on our existing one for MS SQL Server 7, and some things had already changed on the protocol level.

I don't remember exactly what and why, just that for some specific DML commands another kind of connection was required.

CaptainZapp 2 days ago | parent [-]

The split must have happened in the mid nineties (I think) with SQL Server 6 and Sybase 10. The next version after 4.9.

It's notable that 10 was the worst Sybase version, ever.

Source: I worked for Sybase Professional Services from 95 - 99.

password4321 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

SQL Server's claim to fame was GUI admin tools making life easier for many who bore DBA responsibilities only in anger.

It remains one of the most reliable Microsoft products, but few would claim that is a high bar.

prepend 3 days ago | parent [-]

TOAD was fantastic for Oracle, though. I liked it better than SQL’s stuff.

password4321 3 days ago | parent [-]

I can't really speak to 3rd party utilities, I think Management Studio was sufficient to keep most competition from ever starting.

pjmlp 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Open arms, especially given its graphical tooling.

Starting with version 7.5 it was quite alright, however being Microsoft, it has been mostly used in Microsoft shops, alongside VB, MFC two tier applications, ASP, .NET, Sharepoint, Dynamics,...