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joe_mamba 2 days ago

Crazy how for a guy so obsessed with self image and legacy, Trump is leaving behind a world where he'll be known for making everything shit that it was before him. Amazing. How does this happen?

seydor 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

You can read his book, it's full of things he would do (even if he didn't write it). Typical sales tactics and nothing more sales than tactics even after the snake oil has been exposed.

RealityVoid 2 days ago | parent [-]

Oh, yes, I agree. But I now know that they were written by a ghost writer so I'm not sure it it's completely accurate to credit him with all in the books. The ghost writer deff gives it its own flair. But, yes, when Trump was first elected, I've have friends tell me I don't get it, I am hating him because I was told to, I'm not looking past the noise, and I had to clarify to them that no, I have despised him since I read his book "The art of the deal" and came across with the idea he is a corrupt crook. I read it as recommendation and went in with the expectation to read something good, but was not impressed at all.

So, yes, all of this was painfully obvious. But here we are.

2 days ago | parent [-]
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voxic11 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Him and his family will be richer and more famous than ever. I don't think he cares about legacy beyond that.

jghn 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

this and people underestimate how many people in the country still think he's doing a great job.

GJim 2 days ago | parent [-]

> how many people in the country still think he's doing a great job.

'In the country' being 'in the USA'.

Everybody else outside the boarders of the USA is thinking "how the mighty have fallen".

jghn 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. And for the context of this conversation, the people in the USA are what matters. It's not like this regime is going to give up just because other countries dislike them. Their core fan base think it's going gangbusters.

dartharva 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, that's what "in the country" means..

It is also exactly these same people of the USA whose thinking is going to matter for determining what happens next, not anyone else. It is immaterial what "everyone else outside the borders of the USA" thinks in the context of the country.

IAmBroom 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The USA is so overwhelmingly powerful, the phrase is apt: "When it sneezes, the world gets a cold."

The nation that owns the majority of nukes is run by an actual idiot with dementia, and his corrupt picks.

The nation with the majority of aircraft carriers and submarines...

The nation with the largest GDP...

The nation that makes the tech most of the world runs on...

It is terrifying, the international implications that a collapse of my country would cause, but even that pales to the malicious damage it can cause.

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

(I think you meant infamous.)

boringg 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is what happens when sales is the leader of your organization.

jrs235 2 days ago | parent [-]

And compensation is based on revenue not profit. A top sales person brings in $5 million of revenue, but it's going to cost the company $7 million to deliver the goods/services. Sales person hit their top goal and will earn his bonuses while making the company worse off.

ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Stupidity - the most destructive force in the world. Evil at least benefits someone.

citrin_ru 2 days ago | parent [-]

Trump net worth is $3 billion more than it was before he become a president. Likely more money was made via insider trading by his friends and family. So it's not like no one did benefit. Net loss for the country and the world is orders of magnitude higher though.

worldsayshi 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The more I see the stock market dropping due to idiotic mistakes that should've been very preventable, the more I think how beneficial it must be to be one of the insiders that accidentally let those idiotic things slip through.

Are we as small savers just idiots feeding this idiot machine?

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent [-]

>Are we as small savers just idiots feeding this idiot machine?

Yes. 401k should never have been the main retirement plan.

lotsofpulp 2 days ago | parent [-]

I assume you mean low cost broad market index funds when you write 401k, but what other mechanism has offered financial security to so many other than having lots of productive and well networked kids that believe in helping you when you are old?

There is, of course, taxpayer funded retirement benefits, but that is just taking from others’ kids.

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent [-]

Unions + Pensions

vkou 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

What do you think pension funds invest in if not the same things as my 401K?

Pensions are useful to individuals, because they support you until you die (while your 401K will either run out before you die, or will 'waste' money in the bank if you die before it runs out). But they aren't a magic money tree. They are the exact same formula. Money in, money out, it just gets distributed a little better.

lotsofpulp 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The pensions that are so underfunded (either due to corruption or bad math) they need repeated bailouts from federal taxpayers? Hope you’re in a sufficiently politically influential union.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-business-united-states-gove...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-relief-bill-gives-86-b...

If federal taxpayers are going to bail out old people, might as well be the whole stock market so it’s not just a few politically influential unions that get bailed out.

Union members not in an insufficiently influential union can have their benefits cut:

https://www.pbgc.gov/employers-practitioners/multiemployer/i...

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent [-]

Bail out individuals, not the wealthy. Certainly not corporations.

The stock market is rigged in favor of corporations and wealth.

ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that Trump would prefer to be loved / respected / feared and remembered as the greatest US president in history over increasing his net worth.

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My working theory is that Trump is best understood as an epically tragic character.

So desperate to be valued and liked, that he desperately grabs at anything and everything to get the acclaim that, under normal circumstances, would signify that.

His besetting character flaws foreclose any possibility of attaining the actual approval he seeks.

And so, with his misguided approaches to getting praise and love, the harder he tries the further they are from his reach.

Adding to that tragedy is that a 180-degree U-turn is still within his reach. He could do it today, and probably get some of what he most deeply wants. But I think the most likely outcome is that he'll keep his current trajectory for the rest of his life.

farrelle25 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

100% this … He’s a wounded Soul … desperate to be loved and admired. As someone else wrote - there’s a void inside him that can’t be filled.

Yes if only he had the heart/insight to make that 180 U-turn. It’d bring him some peace at last.

mapontosevenths 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> So desperate to be valued and liked, that he desperately grabs at anything and everything to get the acclaim

Like all billionaires, he is an empty void that can never be filled. To borrow a phrase, he is a hungry ghost.

After his first million he needed more, then after a billion he saw that it was not enough, then after becoming president... he is, was, and always will be an empty hole of a person who can never feel satiated and who can consequently never feel genuine happiness.

He is not just a bad person, his is a bad soul.

vrganj 2 days ago | parent [-]

It's time we take seriously the pathology behind billionaires.

You can't become one as a person with basic empathy. To do so is a moral failing.

jrs235 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Most can't. I would say Warren Buffet was level headed, has empathy, and understood he was a steward of resources.

mapontosevenths 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Earlier I said "all billionaires", and that wasn't fair.

To be clear, there are some who turn Capitalism into a religion (objectivists, and the like), and to them it can be moral. They at least seek to serve a moral good, even if I disagree about the means I can appreciate that their goal is still to make the world a better place.

Trump is not one though. He is utterly devoid of morality and seeks only to fill an endless black need for external validation.

cestith 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don’t think he’s interested in general approval. Having a fervent cultish minority support and being detested by others both seem to suit him. Hell, he seems to enjoy being able to paint himself a victimized underdog to his followers.

RealityVoid 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Interesting reading, but hard to have sympathy when he causes suffering for so many.

I also don't think changing his behavior is within reach. His narcissism prevents him from growth and, like the scorpion in the tale, he can't help but sting.

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Thanks. FWIW I wasn't trying to imply that we should have sympathy for him.

My only point was that so much of this suffering, both for himself and others, could be avoided but for his choices and flaws.

weavie 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think it's so clear cut. The problem is that his personality defects have allowed him to be influenced by people who are truly malevolent. Those people lurk more in the shadows and so avoid the condemnation that they deserve. Trump is their obvious useful idiot with the target painted on his head.

2 days ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
delfinom 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The man bankrupted a casino.

thg 2 days ago | parent [-]

Several, actually

theshrike79 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It turns out you can't run a country the same way you run a New York construction business.

scns 2 days ago | parent [-]

You can, into the ground.

callmeal 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>How does this happen?

Well, you see a black man became president. And what's worse, he was a really good one, articulate, kind, humble, and emodied all the values we cherish. And that broke people so much they would rather burn everything down than build on what he did.

Don't forgot how long Trump and other republicans went on about "birth certificates" during Obama's first term.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
gilleain 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

... but have you considered the new ballroom?

virgil_disgr4ce 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The key insight is that Trump is doing what Trump supporters (and fascists in general) want most: punishing The Enemy/Other. Everything else (including gas and grocery prices, etc) is irrelevant. As long as "immigrants" (the "illegal" facade is done by now) and "liberals" are beaten to death by ICE, Trump supporters will honestly and proudly proclaim that he's doing a fantastic job as president.

maplethorpe 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm still holding out for this being some 4d chess move that's way over my head. If he really is this foolish, then why did we all vote for him?

nancyminusone 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

"World's most successful con man successfully fools 77 million people" is honestly not that surprising. He is a professional after all.

Jeremy1026 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Define, "we all".

RealityVoid 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have an answer to that, but you won't like it.

nilamo 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obvious question has an obvious answer: America isn't ready to vote for a woman, much less a black woman.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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DerArzt 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We?

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not 4d chess.

"We" did not vote for him. Some of y'all did.

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row.

It was clear that Biden was mentally slipping. Even if you were a fan of his general politics, 4 additional years of mental decline while in office was a scary prospect.

And then Kamala Harris was given very little time to sell herself to the voters.

I'm wondering if Trump would have won had the Democrats presented someone more appealing earlier in the campaign.

linguae 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I believe Trump would have won 2020 had the COVID pandemic not happened. Things were very chaotic in 2020 America. Biden and his extensive experience in the federal government looked reassuring to a lot of Americans. Biden would have had a tougher time against Trump had 2020 been more like 2019. I believe Biden would have had a tougher time against Bernie Sanders in the primaries had COVID not happened, though a counterargument is that Super Tuesday happened on March 3, before shelter-in-place policies were in effect in California.

A big reason for Trump's success despite his polarizing nature is the polarizing effects of the platforms of our two parties, which distinguish themselves on "culture war" issues such as abortion, gun rights, immigration, LGBT+ rights, and race relations. There are many Americans who love the MAGA agenda, and there are also many Americans who are not in 100% agreement with MAGA but who'd never vote for a Democrat since they feel that a candidate with the opposite cultural views is anathema. If third parties were more viable in America, the latter group of voters could vote for a candidate that is more to their temperament instead of voting for whomever the GOP nominee is.

mindslight 2 days ago | parent [-]

Had COVID not happened, Trump might not have gone batshit crazy with a vendetta against the entire concept of independent federal agencies. Actively rejecting the advice coming from Fauci et al would seem to be a large part of what sensitized him to the larger pattern rather than just writing each instance off as an interpersonal issue.

(by "Trump" and "him" I mean the person himself plus his symbiotic ecosystem of enablers and followers)

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row."

Women candidates?

Because I am sad to admit that is my takeaway: a significant part of the U.S. appears to be sexist (and plenty of women voters included).

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Women candidates

What I meant was Biden and then Harris.

I'm not a politico, but IMHO Harris didn't have enough time to clarify her positions, and to address the points raised by her opposition.

Also, I wonder if the way she was chosen by the Democratic Party rubbed some people the wrong way enough for them to abstain from voting as a form of protest.

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

I understand now, sorry (The first candidate had a rug-pull.)

I suppose the point still stands though with regard to Harris and Clinton.

linguae 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I interpreted the clause “two poor alternatives in a row” as Biden + Harris in the 2024 presidential election, and not Clinton + Harris, since Clinton was the 2016 nominee and Harris was the 2024 nominee after Biden dropped out, but the 2020 nominee was Biden, who did successfully defeat Trump that year.

In my opinion, Clinton’s and Harris’ losses had less to do with their gender and more to do with the candidates themselves:

1. Clinton was facing strong anti-establishment headwinds, and Clinton is a very establishment politician. Many people in 2016 were piping mad at establishment politicians. Trump was able to win the GOP nomination on a platform of “draining the swamp” and pursuing an aggressively right-wing agenda compared to more moderate Republicans, and Sanders, who also had an anti-establishment platform, proved to be a formidable opponent to Clinton. Despite Clinton’s loss, she was still able to win the popular vote. Perhaps had there been less anti-establishment sentiment, it would have been a Clinton vs Jeb Bush election, and I believe Clinton would have won that race.

2. Harris never won a presidential primary election. The only reason she ended up becoming the nominee is because Biden dropped out of the race after his disastrous debate performance against Trump, which occurred after the primaries. Since it was too late to have the voters decide on a replacement for Biden, the Democratic Party selected a replacement: Harris. She only had a few months to campaign, whereas Trump had virtually campaigned his entire time out of office.

3. Let’s not forget the Trump factor in 2024. During Biden’s entire presidency, Trump was able to consolidate his hold on the GOP and his voting base, and in some ways he even expanded his base. The conservative media was filled with defenses of January 6, and Trump was able to convince enough Americans that he and his supporters were persecuted in the aftermath of the 2020 election and January 6.

tolerance 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Look, after lurking through that submission about the Olympics a few days ago I get HN is divided on sex/gender identity, but I'm pretty sure that Joseph Biden is absolutely a man. "Cisgender", if you must.

Or are you misreading the actual argument?

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

I was misreading—I was taking the two failed candidates to include Hillary Clinton—the other time Trump won the election.

My stupidity and failed parsing.

lovich 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you were worried about Biden’s mental decline but looked at Trumps behavior and statements as from someone mentally competent and not also slipping into dementia, then you just wanted Trumps politics and vibes your way into thinking it was ok.

I’m so excited for the future where nobody apparently voted for Trump and never backed him, the same way everyone mysteriously didn’t vote for GWB after his fuckups got too big to ignore

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

And no one voted for Nixon. (I'm old enough to remember that.)

UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't worry, the governor of phillidilly told me that Trump's mental acuity scores are top notch.

jmye 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

iso1631 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you voted for Trump over an inanimate carbon rod then you'd need your head examining.

But America still likes him. The only thing that's tarnished him is that it costs a little more to drive a gas guzzler

_menelaus 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

His approval rating is at a historical low for any president at this point in their term, I think. People don't like ICE, pedophiles, or wars in the Middle East.

iso1631 2 days ago | parent [-]

Wikipedia says about 40% of America approves of him

myvoiceismypass 2 days ago | parent [-]

Latest I saw was 33%: https://www.umass.edu/news/article/president-trumps-approval...

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"inanimate carbon rod"

I like that—wherever it came from. (And inanimate strangely sells it even harder.)

wrboyce 2 days ago | parent [-]

https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Inanimate_Carbon_Rod

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

(Ha ha, and of course it is a reference to a popular show that I have been living under a rock not to have seen.)

GJim 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row.

Oh please.

Are you seriously comparing the disaster that is Mango Mussolini to the likes of (practically any) alternative candidate?

The sad reality is that the American people wanted Trump and _voted_ for him. TWICE! The rest of the world has come to terms with this and knows there is no going back to the old hegemony (put simply, the American people may vote for another Trump; we now know the USA can no longer be trusted as a good faith partner). The world has changed, and many in the USA who didn't vote for Trump have yet to realise this and still think they can go back.

Besides, if all candidates are crap, you vote for the one that will do least harm. And then look at reforming a political system which leaves voters with such a poor choice.

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

GJim 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> The people hunger for democracy,

They surely reform of the two party system (and one where you realistically need to be wealthy to stand a chance of election) is the only solution?

Give people a choice!

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Trump has been the protagonist of US politics for ten years. Maybe this "actually he really has this all planned out" idea was viable in 2017. But in 2026? We've got years and years and years of examples of how Trump makes decisions. He is not playing 4d chess.