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maplethorpe 2 days ago

I'm still holding out for this being some 4d chess move that's way over my head. If he really is this foolish, then why did we all vote for him?

nancyminusone 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

"World's most successful con man successfully fools 77 million people" is honestly not that surprising. He is a professional after all.

Jeremy1026 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Define, "we all".

RealityVoid 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have an answer to that, but you won't like it.

nilamo 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obvious question has an obvious answer: America isn't ready to vote for a woman, much less a black woman.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
DerArzt 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We?

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not 4d chess.

"We" did not vote for him. Some of y'all did.

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row.

It was clear that Biden was mentally slipping. Even if you were a fan of his general politics, 4 additional years of mental decline while in office was a scary prospect.

And then Kamala Harris was given very little time to sell herself to the voters.

I'm wondering if Trump would have won had the Democrats presented someone more appealing earlier in the campaign.

linguae 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I believe Trump would have won 2020 had the COVID pandemic not happened. Things were very chaotic in 2020 America. Biden and his extensive experience in the federal government looked reassuring to a lot of Americans. Biden would have had a tougher time against Trump had 2020 been more like 2019. I believe Biden would have had a tougher time against Bernie Sanders in the primaries had COVID not happened, though a counterargument is that Super Tuesday happened on March 3, before shelter-in-place policies were in effect in California.

A big reason for Trump's success despite his polarizing nature is the polarizing effects of the platforms of our two parties, which distinguish themselves on "culture war" issues such as abortion, gun rights, immigration, LGBT+ rights, and race relations. There are many Americans who love the MAGA agenda, and there are also many Americans who are not in 100% agreement with MAGA but who'd never vote for a Democrat since they feel that a candidate with the opposite cultural views is anathema. If third parties were more viable in America, the latter group of voters could vote for a candidate that is more to their temperament instead of voting for whomever the GOP nominee is.

mindslight 2 days ago | parent [-]

Had COVID not happened, Trump might not have gone batshit crazy with a vendetta against the entire concept of independent federal agencies. Actively rejecting the advice coming from Fauci et al would seem to be a large part of what sensitized him to the larger pattern rather than just writing each instance off as an interpersonal issue.

(by "Trump" and "him" I mean the person himself plus his symbiotic ecosystem of enablers and followers)

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row."

Women candidates?

Because I am sad to admit that is my takeaway: a significant part of the U.S. appears to be sexist (and plenty of women voters included).

CoastalCoder 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Women candidates

What I meant was Biden and then Harris.

I'm not a politico, but IMHO Harris didn't have enough time to clarify her positions, and to address the points raised by her opposition.

Also, I wonder if the way she was chosen by the Democratic Party rubbed some people the wrong way enough for them to abstain from voting as a form of protest.

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

I understand now, sorry (The first candidate had a rug-pull.)

I suppose the point still stands though with regard to Harris and Clinton.

linguae 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I interpreted the clause “two poor alternatives in a row” as Biden + Harris in the 2024 presidential election, and not Clinton + Harris, since Clinton was the 2016 nominee and Harris was the 2024 nominee after Biden dropped out, but the 2020 nominee was Biden, who did successfully defeat Trump that year.

In my opinion, Clinton’s and Harris’ losses had less to do with their gender and more to do with the candidates themselves:

1. Clinton was facing strong anti-establishment headwinds, and Clinton is a very establishment politician. Many people in 2016 were piping mad at establishment politicians. Trump was able to win the GOP nomination on a platform of “draining the swamp” and pursuing an aggressively right-wing agenda compared to more moderate Republicans, and Sanders, who also had an anti-establishment platform, proved to be a formidable opponent to Clinton. Despite Clinton’s loss, she was still able to win the popular vote. Perhaps had there been less anti-establishment sentiment, it would have been a Clinton vs Jeb Bush election, and I believe Clinton would have won that race.

2. Harris never won a presidential primary election. The only reason she ended up becoming the nominee is because Biden dropped out of the race after his disastrous debate performance against Trump, which occurred after the primaries. Since it was too late to have the voters decide on a replacement for Biden, the Democratic Party selected a replacement: Harris. She only had a few months to campaign, whereas Trump had virtually campaigned his entire time out of office.

3. Let’s not forget the Trump factor in 2024. During Biden’s entire presidency, Trump was able to consolidate his hold on the GOP and his voting base, and in some ways he even expanded his base. The conservative media was filled with defenses of January 6, and Trump was able to convince enough Americans that he and his supporters were persecuted in the aftermath of the 2020 election and January 6.

tolerance 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Look, after lurking through that submission about the Olympics a few days ago I get HN is divided on sex/gender identity, but I'm pretty sure that Joseph Biden is absolutely a man. "Cisgender", if you must.

Or are you misreading the actual argument?

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

I was misreading—I was taking the two failed candidates to include Hillary Clinton—the other time Trump won the election.

My stupidity and failed parsing.

lovich 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you were worried about Biden’s mental decline but looked at Trumps behavior and statements as from someone mentally competent and not also slipping into dementia, then you just wanted Trumps politics and vibes your way into thinking it was ok.

I’m so excited for the future where nobody apparently voted for Trump and never backed him, the same way everyone mysteriously didn’t vote for GWB after his fuckups got too big to ignore

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

And no one voted for Nixon. (I'm old enough to remember that.)

UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't worry, the governor of phillidilly told me that Trump's mental acuity scores are top notch.

jmye 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

iso1631 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you voted for Trump over an inanimate carbon rod then you'd need your head examining.

But America still likes him. The only thing that's tarnished him is that it costs a little more to drive a gas guzzler

_menelaus 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

His approval rating is at a historical low for any president at this point in their term, I think. People don't like ICE, pedophiles, or wars in the Middle East.

iso1631 2 days ago | parent [-]

Wikipedia says about 40% of America approves of him

myvoiceismypass 2 days ago | parent [-]

Latest I saw was 33%: https://www.umass.edu/news/article/president-trumps-approval...

JKCalhoun 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"inanimate carbon rod"

I like that—wherever it came from. (And inanimate strangely sells it even harder.)

wrboyce 2 days ago | parent [-]

https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Inanimate_Carbon_Rod

JKCalhoun a day ago | parent [-]

(Ha ha, and of course it is a reference to a popular show that I have been living under a rock not to have seen.)

GJim 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I'm guessing that one reason we got Trump is that the Democrats presented two poor alternatives in a row.

Oh please.

Are you seriously comparing the disaster that is Mango Mussolini to the likes of (practically any) alternative candidate?

The sad reality is that the American people wanted Trump and _voted_ for him. TWICE! The rest of the world has come to terms with this and knows there is no going back to the old hegemony (put simply, the American people may vote for another Trump; we now know the USA can no longer be trusted as a good faith partner). The world has changed, and many in the USA who didn't vote for Trump have yet to realise this and still think they can go back.

Besides, if all candidates are crap, you vote for the one that will do least harm. And then look at reforming a political system which leaves voters with such a poor choice.

buellerbueller 2 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

GJim 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> The people hunger for democracy,

They surely reform of the two party system (and one where you realistically need to be wealthy to stand a chance of election) is the only solution?

Give people a choice!

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
UncleMeat 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Trump has been the protagonist of US politics for ten years. Maybe this "actually he really has this all planned out" idea was viable in 2017. But in 2026? We've got years and years and years of examples of how Trump makes decisions. He is not playing 4d chess.