| ▲ | superkuh 2 days ago |
| What these corporations were trying to do is bad and vaguely feasible to a degree. I think it's bad enough regulation could apply. But there is an additional consideration that's really important in how we as a society deal with this. Screens are not drugs. They are not somehow uniquely and magically addictive (like drugs actually are). The multi-media is not the problem and not the device to be regulated. The corporate structure and motivations are the problem. This issue literally applies to any possible human perception even outside of screens. Sport fishing itself is random interval operant conditioning in the same way that corporations use. And frankly, with a boat, it's just as big of a money and time sink. We should not be passing judgements or making laws regulating screens themselves because we think screens are more addictive than, say, an enjoyable day out on the lake. They're not. You could condition a blind person over the radio with just audio. The radio is not the problem and radios are not uniquely addictive like drugs. We can't treat screens like drugs. It's a dangerous metaphor because governments kill people over drugs. Without this distinction the leverage this "screens are drugs" perceptions gives governments will be incredibly dangerous as these cases proceed. If we instead acknowledge that it's corporations that are the problem and not something magical about screens then there's a big difference in terms of the legislation used to mitigate the problem and the people to which it will apply. The Digital Markets Act in the EU is a good template to follow with it only applying to large entities acting as gatekeepers. |
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| ▲ | hattmall 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's not the screen, it's the format. It's an engineered gambling addiction where the currency is time and instead of the house taking your money the arbitrage your time to an advertiser, often surreptitiously. |
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| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Worse than that, often times the content that fosters the most engagement borders on propaganda that directly damages the social fabric over time. A lot of the extremist content (left, right, and otherwise) fits this description. |
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| ▲ | maxaw 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Screens on their own aren’t “uniquely and magically addictive”, but infinitely scrollable short form video delivered through that screen is, because a few companies spent billions on the smartest minds in the world to make it so. |
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| ▲ | megaman821 2 days ago | parent [-] | | So you would support banning any form of entertainment that people spend more time on than TikTok since it would be above the threshold of addiction? | | |
| ▲ | InvertedRhodium 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | More or less, yeah. There might be some nuance about the threshold for maladaptive behaviour, but if it’s all or nothing I’ll take all. | | |
| ▲ | twoodfin 2 days ago | parent [-] | | How would you get around the First Amendment difficulties? | | |
| ▲ | bjt 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There are plenty of public interest limitations on free speech. Food labels, cigarette warnings, deceptive ad laws. Regulating addictive social media isn't really an outlier here. | | |
| ▲ | twoodfin 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Even commercial speech regulations need a stronger basis than, “People spend a lot of time listening to it.” | | |
| ▲ | intended 2 days ago | parent [-] | | The parent comment set up a false choice and then had to adapt to the response calling their bluff. The issue isn’t with reading or consuming content, as was set up in the challenge above. The issue is with designing feeds and surfacing content in ways that take advantage of our brains. As an analogy, loot boxes in video games, and slot machines come to mind. Both are designed to leverage behavioral psychology, and this design choice directly results in compulsive behavior amongst users. |
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| ▲ | InvertedRhodium 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I live in New Zealand, so I don't have to. |
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| ▲ | maxaw 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I didn’t mention time? From Cambridge dictionary: ‘addiction: an inability to stop doing or using something, especially something harmful.’ I am in support of regulating things which are harmful and which people have trouble not doing | | |
| ▲ | twoodfin 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Like potato chips? | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 days ago | parent [-] | | If a specially designed endless bag of such were aggressively marketed and chemicals to induce appetite added to them then sure. | | |
| ▲ | twoodfin 2 days ago | parent [-] | | None of those attributes are necessary beyond those of an ordinary bag of Lays to meet the definition: “things which are harmful and which people have trouble not doing” | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It's a matter of degree. I don't impulsively drive to the store to purchase another bag immediately after finishing the one I have whereas (for example) many people exhibit such behavior when it comes to tobacco. In the case of social media the feed is intentionally designed to be difficult to walk away from and it is endless (or close enough as makes no practical difference). Even if it weren't endless, refreshing an ever changing page is trivial in comparison to driving to the store and spending money. | | |
| ▲ | twoodfin 2 days ago | parent [-] | | How would you contrast social media with Netflix in this regard? | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 days ago | parent [-] | | An amusing question. Episodes are much longer and most shows only have one or a few seasons. I don't get the sense that streaming services optimize for difficulty to walk away and do something else any more or less than a good book does. Maybe autoplay and immediately popping up a grid of recommendations should both be legally forbidden as tactics that blatantly prey on a well established psychological vulnerability. I'd likely support such legislation provided that it could be structured in such a way as to avoid scope creep and thus erosion of personal liberties. In short I think Netflix is closer to a bag of Lays and modern social media closer to the cigarette industry of yore. |
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| ▲ | hightrix 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Screens are drugs. They are uniquely and magically addictive. Try to take away a kids tablet, a teen's phone, or an adult's phone. They will fight just like an addict. |
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| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is not particularly insightful if you stop and think about it. Try to unilaterally snatch a book that someone is in the middle of reading and you will probably be met with a hostile reaction. Grab the tool someone is using to do a task, similar. What you're describing is the natural reaction to messing with someone else's possessions. Without further context it's blatantly toxic behavior even if you happen to have the authority to force the matter. | | |
| ▲ | durzo22 a day ago | parent [-] | | You aren’t reading or using a hammer for 6 hours a day. It’s hard to find a tone ppl aren’t using their phone that would be appropriate to take it away if it’s only while not using it | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 a day ago | parent [-] | | Phones and computers are used for more than one thing; in that sense they aren't analogous to a single item such as a book or hammer but rather an entire closet filled with odds and ends. Keeping in contact with acquaintances, checking traffic and looking up other day to day information, reading a book during down time, these are three completely distinct activities that have all been nearly entirely subsumed by screens for me. |
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| ▲ | burnished 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Motherfucker you try to take my fork while I'm eating and you're going to get a stabbed hand. Are forks addicting? |
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| ▲ | ineedasername 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| so… choices, as you see them in this issue, the lenses through which on the one hand you think is extreme and the other appropriate… are either screens-as-drugs or sports fishing? Some middle ground might be there somewhere. But if forced to choose… the choices for interpreting behavioral engineering funded by $billions in research for over a decade + data harvesting on a scale unprecedented, for the purpose of manipulating users: Doesn’t sound a lot like fishing to me. |
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| ▲ | jfengel 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Maybe governments should stop killing people over drugs. |