How many keybings do you have and how often do you try new window managers? Compromising the security of the whole system just to save you a few `sed`s when writing some config files seems like a bad trade off.

▲ vidarh 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There's no need to compromise the security of the whole system. A trivially safe option would have been to restrict the ability to acquire global keybindings to specific clients, and require the user to confirm either once or every time (or any other policy you'd prefer). An X server could do that without breaking anything.

This issue is typical of the thinking that went into Wayland: No consideration was made when Wayland was announced of the fact that there were far simpler ways of achieving the same level of security.

▲ lelanthran 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Compromising the security of the whole system just to save you a few `sed`s when writing some config files seems like a bad trade off.

Those aren't the only two options. There's no need to compromise the entire system for everybody if the Wayland devs would agree to configuration that controls these things.

Then those of us who need stuff to work rgardless of WM would get stuff to work and the rest of the Wayland users can simply go with a WM that suits them.

▲ ranger_danger 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Imagine you wrote an application that supports global, unfocused keybinds (OBS is one popular example).

Instead of implementing it one way that works forever with any WM/DE (X11), now you must rely on each individual wayland compositor to implement one or more optional extensions correctly, and constantly deal with bug reports of people that are using unsupported or broken compositors.

▲ James_K 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Or you could write portable software that doesn't rely on reading global input. OBS you give as an example, and it is a good one. They could simply register a D-Bus handler and provide a second binary that sends messages to the running instance. The software is more general in this way as it allows full programmatic control. A Sway user, for instance, could add

  bindsym $mod+r exec obs-control toggle-recording

to their configuration. What's more, they can do this in response to other system events. A user might wish to change the recording configuration of OBS in response to an application opening, and it now becomes possible to write a script which opens the application and applies the change.

If your disdain for desktop isolation is so great, you needn't even use D-Bus. Registering a simple UNIX socket that accepts commands would work equally well in this case.

What's really desired here is a standard way for programs to expose user-facing commands to the system, which is clearly not within the scope of the specification for a display server. The problem with X11 is that it has for a long time exposed too much unrelated functionality like this to the user, and so many apps have become reliant on this and developers have neglected the creation of portable ways to achieve these objectives. A new specification for display servers that excludes this harmful behaviour is a clear long-term positive.

	▲	vidarh 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		This is an excellent description of why this is an awful situation. It's extremely user hostile. > The problem with X11 is that it has for a long time exposed too much unrelated functionality like this to the user It's not "unrelated functionality". It's an entirely generic ability to listen to events that is available with Wayland as well, just with an added restriction.
	▲	ranger_danger 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I'm not sure how any of that sidesteps the point of my comment, which was having to rely on many different wayland compositors all implementing hotkeys properly. I don't think it's always practical or desired to move the hotkey support completely out of the program itself. Most users (especially consumer/nontechnical people such as many OBS users) are not willing to setup hotkeys through a third-party program to manually get it to control OBS externally... so I think it needs to support hotkeys internally, whether there is also control possible via an external socket/dbus/etc. or not.