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mikeyouse 5 hours ago

Unfortunately this is more interesting than a failed Diego Garcia attack — the late Ayatollah had a self-imposed range limit on the strikes or tests they would carry out. By using IRBMs in this fashion, it’s clear the new regime no longer feels bound by that restriction..

Which is notable since it’s about the same distance from Southern Iran to Diego Garcia (3,800km) as it is from Northern Iran to London.

maratc 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They had a religious ruling on the range, and they also had a religious ruling on "not creating an atomic bomb."

The question of whether the world can assume its security on some religious rulings of some Ayatollas is still standing, as these rulings can apparently be changed or bypassed.

tptacek 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This "religious ruling" stuff is less interesting than it sounds. To begin with, while the Islamic Republic of Iran is a totalitarian state, the Twelver Shia hierarchy isn't unified. The supposed ban on nuclear weapons was Khamenei's, and binding only on his followers. But there are several other marja (marjas? marji?), with significant followings even in the security state & IRGC (al-Sistani being a good example).

More importantly, it's pretty clear that the geopolitical rulings are, well, geopolitical in nature. Iran is a nuclear threshold state; its strategy is to come as close to the breakout line as it can and extract concessions for not crossing it. The supposed nuclear fatwa is just public relations strategy. At the point Iran decided the cost/benefit/risk/reward of crossing the threshold made sense, it would be updated.

ttul 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with you, mostly. My read is that Twelver Shi’ism is not a unified hierarchy, and a marja’s fatwa normally binds that marja’s own followers rather than all Shi’a, so your institutional point is broadly right.[1][2] It is too strong, though, to say the anti-nuclear position was simply “invented for PR”: Khamenei did publicly describe it as a real fatwa.[3] At the same time, Iran’s enrichment posture _does_ fit the description of a threshold state, with large stocks of uranium enriched to 60%, so it is fair to say the ruling also had strategic and diplomatic value.[4]

The parts I would soften are the specific claim about Sistani having a significant following inside the IRGC, which MIGHT be true but is much harder to substantiate publicly (although, maybe you have some behind-the-scenes knowledge?), and the certainty of motive. Still, your last sentence is basically right: these rulings are not _immutable_. After Ali Khamenei’s death, Iran’s foreign minister said (quoting the Reuters article), “fatwas depend on the Islamic jurist issuing them,” and added he was “not yet in a position to judge the jurisprudential or political views of Mojtaba Khamenei…” This reinforces the point that doctrine can shift if the leadership chooses.[5]

[1] Encyclopaedia Britannica, “Twelver Shi’ah.”

[2] Al-Islam.org, “Question 49: Difference between hukm and fatwa.” [3] Leader.ir, “Ayatollah Khamenei in the Eid al-Fitr congregational prayers” and “Leader’s remarks on anti-Iran sanctions and Yemen aggressions by Saudi Arabia.”

[4] Arms Control Association, “The Status of Iran’s Nuclear Program,” and ACA analysis citing the IAEA’s 440.9 kg figure.

[5] Reuters, “Iran says nuclear doctrine unlikely to change, Hormuz Strait needs new protocol” (March 18, 2026).

rayiner 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Your in-depth knowledge of completely random things never ceases to amaze me.

tptacek 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm Catholic and Twelver Shiism is the closest thing Islam has to Catholicism. It's a really neat system.

chimineycricket 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maraaji' is the pluralized version in Arabic, but nothing wrong with saying marjas. Marji would be most wrong though.

thaumasiotes 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> But there are several other marja (marjas? marji?)

Wikipedia has romanized: [singular] marji'; plural marāji'.

cardanome 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe don't murder the religious leader that made the rulings.

Can anyone blame them for considering developing nuclear weapons for real now? I can't.

tonyedgecombe 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know but I can certainly blame them for oppressing and murdering their own citizens.

FpUser 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are lots of countries doing just the same but the West does not give a flying fuck about it. Most of the human rights violations they care about somehow related to countries that happened to have oil.

And if you tell me that US /Israel are bombing Iran to protect rights of oppressed then I have that wonderful bridge.

lm28469 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everyone does, the problem is that every time the US came to deliver democracy to the Middle East they left the place in a much worse shape than it was... Also I don't believe for a second Trump or Israel give a single fuck about Iranian citizens

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
watwut 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But that has nothing to do with this war. Like, nothing at all. Israel doing genocode in gaza and what seems like ethnical cleansing of lebanon does not have anyyhing with that either. USA threatening Greenland is also not a factor in this war.

Donald Trump does not care about protesters in Iran. His idea of regime change is "keep the regime and change head for someone who will pay me personally".

And Hegseth does not care either. He is proving his manhood.

And Israel have completely different goals, so.

It is not like Saudi were democrats. They have cut that journalist into pieces. They are violent dictatorship on their own right.

breppp 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

After being caught developing nuclear weapons for real numerous times, now it is really for real?

pepperoni_pizza 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Were they caught by the same people who found WMDs in Iraq by any chance?

breppp 5 hours ago | parent [-]

the IAEA, presumably you trust UN agencies?

in any case, these are the mythical WMDs found in Iraq:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/03/world/middlee...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have...

1659447091 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

From your source:

> "These weapons were not part of an active arsenal. They were remnants from Iraq’s arms program in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war."

These are not the "WMD" that led to or had any involvement with 2003, it's dishonest to suggest so

breppp 4 hours ago | parent [-]

These were chemical weapons found in Iraq, the reason the new york times was interested in the story was the fact that ISIS has somehow developed chemical weapons using Iraq's existing infrastructure.

This means there were active facilities, materials and know how even after the war

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
lm28469 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

We have Joe Kent on mic saying Iran was not building nukes and posed no threat to the US.

The only people saying Iran was just about to get nukes are the Israelis, who've been saying that every 5 years for the last 40 years, and the only people who fell for it are magatards

I don't understand how people fall for this shit after the Iraq war scam, which was essentially the exact same propaganda

maratc an hour ago | parent [-]

Well, maybe you have a plausible explanation for why Iran needed 60%-grade enriched uranium -- now that we've firmly established that it clearly was not for building nukes.

xdennis an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> Maybe don't murder the religious leader that made the rulings.

Are you saying that politicians should be immune if they also serve a religious role?

cardanome an hour ago | parent [-]

I am saying it is bad to murder people. Period.

Don't start wars. Don't assassinate neither political nor religious leaders.

throwaway27448 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The question of whether the world can assume its security on some religious rulings of some Ayatollas

I don't think much of the world has processed that Iran's ostensible lack of nuclear weapons is purely a matter of will and not capability.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
greesil 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Excellent point. Maybe it's the goal of this attack to demonstrate this capability.

lm28469 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it’s clear the new regime no longer feels bound by that restriction..

Wait a minute... Are you implying the dude who just got his dad, wife, brother, son and many other relatives killed by their arch enemies is not bending the knee?

Who could have predicted that?

chasd00 an hour ago | parent [-]

That guy is dead or dying. He’s not in control of anything. There’s been no audio or video of him since the opening strike.

lm28469 an hour ago | parent [-]

Whoever is in charge doesn't matter, I can guarantee you they're not in a more favorable mood than 4 weeks ago. They also killed one of only rational diplomatic Iranian officials, during active negociations, if you want to make it clear negociating with the US is useless that's exactly what you'd do

rayiner 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> the late Ayatollah had a self-imposed range limit on the strikes or tests they would carry out.

Can you elaborate on what kind of strikes the Ayatollah was carrying out within the old range limit?

jmyeet 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd add that it's also a free opportunity to test IRBM targeting at much longer ranges.

The war of choice is really the US's Teutoburg Forest moment.

4 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
mytailorisrich 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Iran has always said a lot of things (mostly BS). This is worthless without evidence and I don't think anyone had evidence that their missiles were restricted to 2,000km. Certainly, I don't think anyone took their word for it. In fact this attack proves that there was no such limitation (although it is unclear to me if the missiles fired could actually jave reached Diego Garcia).

Now this may be a demonstration and veiled threat, on the other hand if Iran was to fire a missile at continental Europe I would hope that the consequence for them would be to be flattened, so...

applfanboysbgon 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You didn't have to take their word for it. It was self-evident from the fact they never did anything like this before, and now they are.

Notably, the previous guy issued a religious decree against the development of nuclear weapons. Despite American's favorite propaganda tool for manufacturing consent, "but the WMDs", we have no reason to believe that was ever actually being violated. But you'd better believe it will be now if they think they can pull it off.

mytailorisrich 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is a difference between not doing something and being unable to do something. Clearly there were able but only showed it now and their previous claim was BS (again, assuming those missiles did fly "far").

No-one believes that Iran is not pursuing nuclear weapons, either... or that they wouldn't if they had developed the capability.

gambutin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ayatollah Khomeini admitted that he had lied about plans to make Iran democratic.

This practice is known as taqqiya. It’s ok to lie if you’re deceiving the enemy.

subscribed an hour ago | parent [-]

Did he also released a religious decree stating as much?

Because otherwise you're comparing apples to mushrooms. Not even themselves kingdom.

rayiner 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do the missiles Iran has been raining down on other countries for decades not count as WMDs?

oa335 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No.

“ A weapon of mass destruction is a nuclear, radiological, chemical, biological, or other device that is intended to harm a large number of people”

https://www.dhs.gov/topics/weapons-mass-destruction.

jl6 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No. There’s a definition from the UN here if you’re interested:

https://unterm.un.org/unterm2/en/view/UNHQ/9626F6CEB2A92C9B8...

subscribed an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh, that would be quite a spin. We can probably see it in the Faux News soon.

sebastiennight 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

AFAICT, not by any commonly accepted definition of WMD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction#Def...

chasd00 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Idk, I don’t think Europe has the capacity to do anything except launch their nukes. If missiles started falling on London they’d run to the UN and start writing letters. It would take months for NATO to start having planning meetings to figure out how to plan the response. I feel like the only military capability is maybe the SAS and nukes. There’s nothing in between.

mda 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Like they flattened Afghanistan? It is funny people thinks land war in an huge mountainous country with 90 million people is easy.

PepperdineG 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Never get involved in a land war in Asia but only slightly less well-known is never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

me_smith 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Inconceivable!

mytailorisrich 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wrote "flatten", not "invade".

mda 5 hours ago | parent [-]

flatten with what?

drnick1 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Like what is happening now, completely decimating their army, navy, and air force. If that isn't enough, destroy their only source of revenue (oil fields), or go even further and destroy their electrical grid and send the country back to the stone age.

Finally, if the regime does not surrender after all this, a nuke could still be used.

lostlogin 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> destroy their only source of revenue (oil fields)

That’s the worlds source or revenue.

lm28469 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lmao, from "we're here to bring democracy" to "let's destroy their civilian infrastructure" to "let's nuke them" real quick

If that's the US way, why are Russians the bad guy again?

subscribed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You don't use nuke on the regime, you use it on the civilians, FFS.

Genocidal freaks. As if Hiroshima didn't teach you anything.

breppp 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> On the other hand if Iran was to fire a missile at continental Europe I would hope that the consequence for them would be to be flattened

Iran have been attacking uninvolved NATO member Turkey for a while now and nothing happens. The USA is already fully engaged into this war while Europe can hardly deal together with Russia, it is doubtful they'd do anything even if it rained down on their territory

GordonS 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It should be noted that Iran has publicly stated that the attacks on Turkey were false-flag attacks launched by Israel.

mda 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Attacking as in a couple of rockets heading US bases which were intercepted. Of course nothing would happen, why would Turkey (or other European countries) join this pointless war?

breppp 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This is an attack on Turkish territory regardless if there's a US base, and Iranian missiles usually miss the bases anyway.

Turkey is led by a strongman leader and these are very sensitive to acts of public humiliation. So that's unwise when thinking about any negligible strategic advantage they may gain from these attacks

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
throwaway27448 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What incentive would Iran have to lie? Their entire security model revolves around believable deterrence—apparently far more believable than either Israel or the US understood.

kevbin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

gravisultra 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Actually it would be better to kill Netanyahu and the IDF.

kevbin 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[flagged]

gambutin 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

gravisultra 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Successfully remove Israel's influence from western politics and media and let the Palestinians have their land back.

gambutin 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

nslsm 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They could move to a place where their behaviour is tolerated. Maybe in Mars.

gravisultra 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's up to the Palestinians to decide, it's their land.

gambutin 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

gravisultra 5 hours ago | parent [-]

History.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_declaration

gambutin an hour ago | parent [-]

How many years are you willing to go back?

Return West-Poland to Germany? Return Spain to the Arabs?

tgma 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

spaghetdefects 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This was a religious war launched by Israel during Purim, a Jewish holiday celebrating the mass murder of Persians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim

tgma 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't see the relevance of history and mythology to the point I was making. I am suggesting that even within the Shia framework, if we were to take it at face value, the religious ruling that the GP mentioned is non-binding because they are allowed to lie out of expediency to life or existential threats to the Islamic establishment (Taqiyya); it won't count as a sin or hypocricy within their own framework, objectively.

rayiner 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Jewish holiday celebrating the mass murder of Persians.

You’re leaving out a key part of the story aren’t you? “Having found out that Mordecai is Jewish, Haman plans to kill not just Mordecai but the entire Jewish minority in the empire.”

Your analogy to what’s happening now is quite apt, though. Iran had peaceful relations with Israel for decades. It was the second Muslim country to recognize Israel. But for decades since then it has been funding terrorism and launching missiles aimed at Israel.

spaghetdefects 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Saying that your enemy "plans" to do something, is never justification for mass murdering civilians. It's interesting that this is basically the same playbook Zionists are currently using. Hurl some accusations, then start killing civilians.

rayiner 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Haman’s plans weren’t theoretical. He had taken steps to put them into action, just like Iran has taken steps for decades in attacking Israel. Likewise, the people that were killed weren’t civilians. They were supporters of Haman. Undoubtedly, some innocent people were killed. That’s just how war works.

spaghetdefects 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> modern scholarship generally regards it as a historical novel with legendary elements, not a reliable account of Purim’s origins.

It's fiction.

k33n 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

nomdep 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

London? Why would they attack an almost Muslim country, especially one that's their most fanatical ally?