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jjmarr 10 hours ago

Waymo saved my life in LA.

When I visited LA, I rode in a Waymo going the speed limit in the right lane on a very busy street. The Waymo approached an intersection where it had the right of way, when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road.

In less than a second, the Waymo moved into the left lane and kept going. I didn't even realize what was happening until after it was over.

Most human drivers would've t-boned the car at 50+ km/h. Maybe they would've braked and reduced the impact, which would be the right move. A human swerving probably would've overshot into oncoming traffic. Only a robot could've safely swerved into another lane and avoid the crash entirely.

Unfortunately, the Waymo only supported Spotify and did not work with my YouTube Music subscription, so I was listening to an advertisement at the time of my near-death experience. 4.5 stars overall.

kqr 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road.

I vaguely recall reading at some point that this is something human drivers learn to do around robot cars because the robots are so timid. Is that still the case, was it never the case, or has it stopped being the case?

If it's still the case, one could argue that if you were not in a robot, the situation would never have occurred in the first place! (On the other hand, if you were both in robots, maybe it also wouldn't have...)

Taek 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Unfortunately, the Waymo only supported Spotify and did not work with my YouTube Music subscription, so I was listening to an advertisement at the time of my near-death experience. 4.5 stars overall.

This detail sent me, it's crazy that we can pay $25 to have a life saving robot take us across the city yet Spotify is going to blast ads at us the whole time for the sake of making an extra $0.18 (yes that's the actual number) per hour of listening time.

himata4113 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's around 44.64 (0.18831) per month, no wonder ads are preferrable to companies over subscriptions! That's actually a lot for people that listen to music all day every day at work.

kulahan an hour ago | parent [-]

Google was famously really resistant to ads at first. They wanted to do a subscription service of some kind, but honestly ads just brought in so much more revenue even back then that it was a nigh-inevitable decision. It produces a crazy amount of economy.

I still loathe ads though.

whatever1 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Imagine your last thing in your mind being an ad about mongoDB.

0x3f 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I actually find those amusing because they just make me remember the 'web scale' meme.

IshKebab 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's kind of wild how you have so many ads targeted at devs in SF.

bombcar 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s like all the ads at airports clearly aimed at C-level execs.

jacquesm 7 hours ago | parent [-]

And those in Brussels are all by American giants that want EU bureaucrats to know they take privacy seriously.

borski 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They know their market. :)

DetroitThrow 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Thanks for that thought. Horrible.

amelius 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it's crazy that we can pay $25 to have a life saving robot take us across the city yet Spotify is going to blast ads at us the whole time for the sake of making an extra $0.18 (yes that's the actual number) per hour of listening time.

Oh, the self driving car business will get there, believe me. This is just the first iteration. Designed to get everybody on board with the idea.

jmalicki 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if Waymo gets a cut. I also wonder if riding in a Waymo at the time signals that you're in a demographic that can afford a Waymo and thus get more expensive ads.

9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
ElijahLynn 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How ironic that an Alphabet company, Waymo, only works with a competitor streaming music service, Spotify, and not their own, YouTube Music. I guess that shows how separate they are.

achatham 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We do support YouTube Music and actually supported that before Spotify. But we only do ad-supported on Spotify and iHeartRadio (also paid Spotify).

jjmarr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It looks like YouTube Music was only added in October? I took the ride in September.

https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/16623742?hl=en

lostlogin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe you could recreate it now, but with better music?

fragmede 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How about some games to pass the time? Make some exclusives so I look forwards to a 20 minute cross-town drive!

svat 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it's also a privacy thing; you have to go into the Waymo app and “connect” your YouTube Music account (even though both have the same @gmail.com address), because otherwise the terms of service of one do not allow sharing data with the other without user consent. (Contrary to popular perception Google is very finicky about privacy, at least privacy as defined as conforming to the terms of service.)

casta 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In January YouTube music worked fine when I took Waymo in Menlo Park.

jjmarr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This was in September, so I'm happy to see the change!

tialaramex 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That's good news, if I can't use the Youtube Music I've paid for in the Waymo then I'm not going to put up with Spotify Ads instead, better to sit in silence (or use my headphones and my own music)

fc417fc802 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Can you not steam arbitrary audio to it from your phone?

cco 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thankfully they've now shipped their own product, YouTube Music.

And Google Pay, imagine my surprise back in 2021 when I signed up for Waymo and realized I had to manually type in my credit card. No Google Pay??? C'mon y'all, you're Alphabet!

hattmall 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Only a robot could've safely swerved into another lane and avoid the crash entirely.

Do you drive a lot? I feel like humans take evasive actions like this all the time.

intrasight 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Some do and some more successful than others.

int0x29 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nearly got T-boned in a Lyft in LA. I am lucky to still be alive as the driver was not aware and should not have been driving. Where available I've stopped using human driven rideshare.

AgentME 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Waymos have since added support for YouTube Music thankfully.

8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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cush 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Waymo saved my life... Unfortunately the Waymo only supported Spotify

I chuckled

georgemcbay 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I was listening to an advertisement at the time of my near-death experience.

You'll probably never forget that advertisement, which is an exciting business opportunity for Waymo.

They could partner with Spotify and other media content partners so that the Waymo can generate an adrenaline-rush near crash experience when a premium advertiser's ad is playing. /s (hopefully)

Analemma_ 9 hours ago | parent [-]

This is one of those comments that made me laugh nervously. It's straight out of Ubik or another PKD novel, which probably means it's less than 5 years away from being real.

ok_dad 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If there’s a torment nexus to be built they’ll build it.

7 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
selimthegrim 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Might be Orhan Pamuk or JG Ballard's mantle to be picked up

7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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refulgentis 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They support YouTube Music now, thank god

rootusrootus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hope you are misremembering. Swerving is most often the wrong choice, and I would be disappointed if Waymo were opting for that. By far the best option is to panic stop. Human or robot, physics is a harsh mistress and swerving is more likely to make you lose control and end up in a much more unforgiving wreck.

jjmarr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It wasn't possible to stop at the speed the Waymo was moving at.

The Waymo didn't have the stop sign, the other driver did, at a three way intersection.

The other driver decided to suddenly enter the intersection, when the Waymo was like 5-10 meters away. This was after having stopped at the stop sign.

Either they weren't looking or intentionally trying to cause an accident. Swerving prevented the Waymo from crashing at 40 km/h into the driver's door.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I assume waymo has a constant full picture of what's around, so swerve should be way safer for a machine than a human

kcrwfrd_ 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For a human this advice is true. But what if a computer can near-instantly calculate a perfect swerve within the performance envelope of the car and driving conditions?

worldsayshi 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> swerving is more likely to make you lose control

Even if you're not a panicky human but a optimally regulated control system?

rootusrootus 8 hours ago | parent [-]

The optimally regulated system doesn't know the road conditions that well. When the road surface is more slippery, it has the most profound effect on lateral friction, way more than braking.

amluto 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The Waymo driver can measure the speed and the acceleration of the offending car and calculate, within at most tens of ms, its range of likely future trajectories. And it can calculate its own likely trajectories under maximum braking. And it can track exactly where all obstacles are that would matter if it swerves. All at once. And it can execute that emergency lane change with the control input that is least likely to cause a loss of control and most likely to successfully avoid the other car. It even has processing power to spare to keep playing that Spotify ad!

BugsJustFindMe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The optimally regulated system doesn't know the road conditions that well.

I'd like to introduce you to what autonomous cars were already able to do in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khX0UCqcR3M

7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
bluGill 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most often, but this seems to describe the rare exception.

taneq 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This depends a huge amount on car, driver and situation. It was the right advice for a learner driver in the 90s with no stability control, no experience and no side airbags, because if you’re going to hit something, hitting it front on is the least risky way. I’m not convinced it’s the right advice for a competent driver in a modern vehicle.

rootusrootus 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is still standard advice today, as far as I know. Tires are better, stability control is better, but all else being equal you are still much more dynamically stable and have a lot more friction with the road when the car is stopping in a straight line than when swerving.

Also, in the case of someone running a stop sign, it is far from a sure bet they are going to hit their brakes at all, so by swerving you increase the odds that you will still hit them, but now it will be while you have exhausted all your adhesion on lateral control. So now instead of a front end collision with all the benefits of airbags and crumple zones, you are at a significant risk of rolling the car or spinning off the road and hitting something immovable with a part of your car lacking crumple zones.

madaxe_again 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The common mistake is people swerve and brake, which is a terrible combination - you should accelerate through a sudden manoeuvre, as it maintains control through it, much as you should accelerate through corners in general.

jeffreygoesto an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Wunibald Kamm begs to differ. For his circle, it doesn't matter if the additional force that causes the friction to be insufficient is forward or backwards on top of the side force. In critical situations either use your friction for lateral xor longitudinal action, never both at the same time. Brake hard, but then sail through the curve. You want that vector to move along the circle and never leave it. As that is very difficult for an untrained driver, better switch hard between both modes.

jjmarr 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Thanks! Now I know why the Waymo didn't slow down.

jacquesm 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What about other drivers in that lane? It would have to be 100% sure that any other drivers near it would have enough time to react as well.

madaxe_again 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Absolutely. I was recently driving on a motorway in Portugal when a boulder (giant chunk of granite, 10+ tonnes) fell off the back of a truck - right in front of us, in a heavily laden (7 pax and luggage) car. Immediate massive cloud of dust, I checked my blind spot, veered across two lanes, and continued our journey, unscathed. I looked in the rear view, to see the car behind us jump on the brakes instead of evading. They caught the boulder.

Nobody killed, according to the news, but several taken to hospital in critical condition.

Oh, I say unscathed but our tyre exploded the next day, as apparently we caught a fragment, and again, that’s not a “slam on the brakes” moment, but rather “trundle to a stop on the shoulder and walk to the conveniently nearby tyre shop”.

cucumber3732842 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you're over-playing how decisively a Waymo will move and under-playing how decent the average human is.

I've ridden in Waymos. They don't exactly slap on the blinker and move at the limit of traction like someone about to miss their exit. If cut off they absolutely will go full brake rather than perform any sort of spicy lane change or turn.

jjmarr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> If cut off they absolutely will go full brake rather than perform any sort of spicy lane change or turn.

Essentially, a meat driver was waiting at a stop sign to make a turn onto the main road. I was in a Waymo driving on the main road and did not have a stop sign.

When we were 10 meters away from the intersection, the meat driver suddenly started to enter the intersection. I have no idea why.

Full brake would've hit the other car in the driver's side door at 40 km/h.

> under-playing how decent the average human is.

I got to SMFC in CSGO which means I'm in the top 3% of players in clicking on heads within 500 ms of them appearing on my screen. I have never reacted as fast as that Waymo did.

necovek 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If instant (<50ms) reaction would have lowered the speed only to 40km/h in 10m, Waymo was going too fast for the intersection IMO.

My experience is that for a human driver to react quickly in city driving conditions, style and prep are more important than reaction time: in the case you describe (entering an intersection with another car waiting on a stop sign perpendicular to your path), I'd have my foot hanging over the brake and off the gas pedal — this has helped me avoid hitting many other cars with inattentive/distracted/bad drivers, and even pedestrians running over the road or a red light on a crosswalk. When you are prepared and looking, you slam the brakes much faster!

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
Fire-Dragon-DoL 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

To be fair, we are not provided with the sensors to swerve safely. If we had some sort of 360 constant recording in the car (on screen?) it would be safer for humans to swerve. Instead we have to move our head, which is cheaper but lacks info. That's why we now have rear cameras

hammock 6 hours ago | parent [-]

We have rear cameras because people DONT move their head. And because regulations have made cars way taller than they need to be, meaning there is a big blind spot close to the ground

Fire-Dragon-DoL 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I mean, even in low cars you cannot see a small enough kid walking behind your car. That's why you back slowly. Back when I just got my driver license, there is a big lesson many drivers go through (in Italy) which is you back off a parking and there is an obstacle that's so low that cannot be see through the back window and it's small enough that cannot be seen through the mirror. You hit it and if you followed the "go slow part" you only damaged the paint.

So I'm not opposing the ideas of rear cameras, but I'm totally against tall cars, because you cannot see kids IN FRONT either now.

Ferret7446 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you're humongously overselling the average driver. I mean, the stats for waymo vs human drivers speak for themselves.

necovek 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Depends on how you define "average driver": what if 95% of the crashes are caused by 5% of the drivers?

My reading of all the human crash stats has been that majority of them happen when human drivers are impaired (drunk, drugged or too tired): as this is something we could (in theory, at least) control, I'd like to see and compare with stats for non-impaired human drivers too.

Then, I'd like to see it compared to attentive, non-distracted drivers too (but we won't have crash data for this, as they would avoid most potential crashes).

Note that I am only talking things under every human driver's control, and not things like skill, reaction time, etc.

Also, modern cars (like Waymos) will have a much lower braking distance compared to "average": eg. my Volvo has 35m braking distance from 100km/h or 62mph compared to 50m (45% more) listed as average (excluding reaction distance) — so from 50km/h, it should be around 8m!

CalRobert 2 hours ago | parent [-]

To be fair, if 5% of drivers cause 95% of crashes then the average driver is still terrible.

The median one might be better, but does it even matter? The average driver is still wreaking havoc.

qwerty_clicks 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In Houston the stats suggest that every driver should get into a crash at least once every. But many ppl haven’t been an crash all their lives and more have been in multiple

zx8080 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Waymo saved my life in LA. When I visited LA, I rode in a Waymo going the speed limit in the right lane on a very busy street. The Waymo approached an intersection where it had the right of way, when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road.

> ...

> Unfortunately, the Waymo only supported Spotify and did not work with my YouTube Music subscription, so I was listening to an advertisement at the time of my near-death experience. 4.5 stars overall.

What?! Is this a generated comment?

jjmarr 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here is a photo I took inside of the Waymo outside of an Erewhon. Going to Erewhon and experiencing the $20 Hailey Bieber smoothie was on my brother's bucket list and riding in a Waymo was on mine.

https://files.catbox.moe/jdjwy5.jpg

https://files.catbox.moe/mh4ivw.jpg

I have included EXIF data in an attempt to prove this really happened and I'm not an AI commenting bot.

kcrwfrd_ 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What was the verdict on the smoothie?

jjmarr 4 hours ago | parent [-]

He said it was overpriced but bought it again from a different Erewhon so I assumed he liked it (Canadian understatement).

There's apparently a quality gap between locations. The pre-Waymo one was from Erewhon Grove and was freshly blended. Erewhon Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive premade a bunch of them and left them lying around for a while before selling.

My brother's theory is that Erewhon Grove customers are people who legitimately wanted a smoothie and Erewhon Beverly Hills customers just want photos with the smoothie since it was very popular on Instagram at the time.

Most surprising fact was despite being a licensed product, it was better than the best non-licensed smoothie (coconut cloud).

Licensing deals should make the product worse because the royalties cut into the product margin. The company cuts costs or doesn't take creative risks as a result. But somehow Erewhon resisted these pressures when designing the Hailey Bieber smoothie. We had a discussion about why that was the case but couldn't come up with an answer.

kcrwfrd_ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I think they have rotating specials. These are pre-made, cheaper, and smaller. When you have a membership this is the one you get for free (once a month).

They used to have a “Dr. Paul's Raw Animal-Based Smoothie” that I looooved, but unfortunately they stopped making it. Still sad about that one :(

saalweachter 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Pffft, like a bot couldn't fake metadata.

andrewflnr an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe it is, in fact, humor.