| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 15 hours ago |
| MCP is a fixed specification/protocol for AI app communication (built on top of an HTTP CRUD app). This is absolutely the right way to go for anything that wants to interoperate with an AI app. For a long time now, SWEs seem to have bamboozled into thinkg the only way you can connect different applications together are "integrations" (tightly coupling your app into the bespoke API of another app). I'm very happy somebody finally remembered what protocols are for: reusable communications abstractions that are application-agnostic. The point of MCP is to be a common communications language, in the same way HTTP is, FTP is, SMTP, IMAP, etc. This is absolutely necessary since you can (and will) use AI for a million different things, but AI has specific kinds of things it might want to communicate with specific considerations. If you haven't yet, read the spec: https://modelcontextprotocol.io/specification/2025-11-25 |
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| ▲ | tptacek 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Why is this the right way to go? It's not solving the problem it looks like it's solving. If your challenge is that you need to communicate with a foreign API, the obvious solution to that is a progressively discoverable CLI or API specification --- the normal tool developers use. The reason we have MCP is because early agent designs couldn't run arbitrary CLIs. Once you can run commands, MCP becomes silly. There is a clear problem that you'd like an "automatic" solution for, but it's not "we don't have a standard protocol that captures every possible API shape", it's "we need a good way to simulate what a CLI does for agents that can't run bash". |
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| ▲ | master_crab 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, this has been the gradual evolution of AI context and tooling. Same thing is occurring with some of the use cases of a vector DB and RAG. Once you can have the agent interact with the already existing conventional data store using existing queries, there is no point in introducing that work flow for inference. | |
| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A lot of the reasons to use MCP are contained in the architecture document (https://modelcontextprotocol.io/specification/2025-11-25/arc...) and others. Among them, chief is security, but then there's standardization of AI-specific features, and all the features you need in a distributed system with asynchronous tasks and parallel operation. There is a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with calling tools. For any sufficiently complex set of AI tasks, you will eventually need to invent MCP. The article posted here talks about those cases and reasons. However, there are cases when you should not use MCP, and the article points those out too. | | |
| ▲ | troupo 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Among them, chief is security The security is so chief that they had no security at all until several versions later when they hastily bolted on OAuth. MCP is a vibe-codef protocol that rode one of the many AI hype waves where all "design documents" are post-hoc justifications. | | |
| ▲ | brabel 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | They did the right thing in hindsight: leave security open until clear patterns emerge, then solidify those patterns into a spec. The spec is still in draft and currently, they are trying to find a simpler solution for client registration than DCR, which apparently ephemeral clients seems to solve for now. If they had made the security spec without waiting for user information they would most certainly have chosen a suboptimal solution. | | |
| ▲ | troupo an hour ago | parent [-] | | Or... They could just use any of the existing API specs and wouldn't have to scramble to fix whatever Claude Code spat out. |
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| ▲ | tptacek 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If the chief reason to use MCP is security, I'm sold: it's a dead letter, and we're not going to be using it a couple years from now. | | |
| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Security is the chief reason in that it's the most important, since AI security is like nuclear waste. But the reason you should use it is it's a standard, and it's better to use one standard and be compatible with 10,000 apps, than have to write 10,000 custom integrations. When I first used ChatGPT, I thought, "surely someone has written some kind of POP3 or IMAP plugin for ChatGPT so it can just connect to my mail server and download my mail." Nope; you needed to write a ChatGPT-specific integration for mail, which needed to be approved by ChatGPT, etc. Whereas if they supported any remote MCP server, I could just write an MCP server for mail, and have ChatGPT connect to it, ask it to "/search_mail_for_string" or whatever, and poof, You Have Mail(tm). |
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| ▲ | DetroitThrow 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Among them, chief is security Considering many popular MCPs have done auth incorrectly, this made me lol |
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| ▲ | jabber86 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am creator of HasMCP (my response could have a little bias). Not everyone has home/work computer by preference mostly. I know a lot of people just use iPad or Android tablet in addition to their phone. They still use applications to work on the things. This number is not a small amount of people. They need to access openworld data or service specific data. This is where MCP is still the one of the best ways. It tries to standardize the auth, messaging, feedback loop where API can't do alone. A CLI app can do for sure but we are talking about a standard maybe the way is something like mcpcli that you can install your phone but still would you really prefer installing bunch of application to your personal device? Some points that MCP is still not good as of today: - It does not have a standard to manage context in a good way. You have to find your hack. The mostly accepted one search, add/rm tool. Another one is cataloging the tools. - lack of client tooling to support elicitation on many clients (it really hurts productivity but this is not solved with cli too) - lack of mcp-ui adoption (mcp-ui vs openai mcp app) I would suggest keep building to help you and your users. I am not sponsor of MCP, just sharing my personal opinion. I am also creator HasCLI but kindly biased for MCP then CLI in terms of coverage and standardization. | | |
| ▲ | troupo 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It tries to standardize the auth, messaging, feedback loop where API can't do alone. If it tried to do that, you wouldn't have the pain point list. It's a vibe coded protocol that keeps using one-directional protocols for bi-directional communication, invents its own terms for existing stuff (elicitation lol), didn't even have any auth at the beginnig etc. It's a slow sad way of calling APIs with JSON-RPC |
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| ▲ | oneseventwonine 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | For the Agent to use CLI, don't we have to install CLI in the run-time environment first? Instead for the MCP over streamable HTTP we don't have to install anything and just specify the tool call in the context in't it? | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | This rolls up to my original point. I get that if you stipulate the agent can't run code, you need some kind of systems solution to the problem of "let the agent talk to an API". I just don't get why that's a network protocol coupling the agent to the API and attempting to capture the shape of every possible API. That seems... dumb. | | |
| ▲ | kasey_junk 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Environments where it’s hard to install and configure cli tools and where you want oauth flows. That is mcp for coding agents is dumb. For gui apps installed at non-cli using non-permissive endpoints it makes a lot of sense. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right, this is the part of the problem I get, but a universal meta-API seems like they're overshooting it by a lot. |
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| ▲ | harrall 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | CLI doesn’t work for your coworkers that aren’t technical. Have you tried to use a random API before? It’s a process of trial and error. With the MCP tools I use, it works the first time and every time. There is no “figuring out.” | | |
| ▲ | AussieWog93 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >CLI doesn’t work for your coworkers that aren’t technical. This actually isn't true. I've written bespoke CLI tools for my small business and non-technical people run them without issue. They get intimidated at first but within a day or so they're completely used to it - it's basically just magic incantations on a black box. | | |
| ▲ | bonesss 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | CLI’s and shell commands can be wrapped by and packaged into scripts, those scripts can have meaningful names. On Windows at least you can assign special icons to shortcuts to those scripts. I’ve used that approach to get non-technical near-retirees as early adopters of command line tooling (version control and internal apps). A semantic layer to the effect of ‘make-docs, share-docs, get-newest-app, announce-new-app-version’. The users saw a desktop folder with big buttons to double click. Errors opened up an email to devs/support with full details (minimizing error communication errors and time to fix). A few minutes of training, expanded and refined to meet individual needs, and our accountants & SME’s loved SVN/Git. And the discussion was all about process and needs, not about tooling or associated mental models. |
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| ▲ | JeremyNT 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This should be trivial if you have proper API documentation in something like swagger. You can generate a cli tool with no "figuring out" anything either. | | |
| ▲ | clintonb 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nothing is “trivial” when you combine humans and computers. I worked at the MIT Computing Help Desk during my undergraduate years. We joked that we received callas from Nobel laureates who could find subatomic particles but couldn’t find the Windows Start button. My company is currently trying to rollout shared MCPs and skills throughout the company. The engineers who have been using AI tools for the past 1-2 years have few, if any, issues. The designers, product managers, and others have numerous issues. Having a single MCP gateway with very clear instructions for connecting to Claude Desktop and authenticating with Google eliminates numerous problems that would arise from installing and authenticating a CLI. The MCP is also available on mobile devices. I can jot down ideas and interact with real data with Claude iOS and the remote MCP. Can’t do that with a CLI. |
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| ▲ | mkoubaa 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you can't write a good CLI I doubt you could write a good MCP |
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| ▲ | isbvhodnvemrwvn 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's significantly more difficult to secure random clis than those apis. All llm tools today bypass their ignore files by running commands their harness can't control. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm fuzzy when we're talking about what makes an LLM work best because I'm not really an expert. But, on this question of securing/constraining CLIs and APIs? No. It is not easier to secure an MCP than it is a CLI. Constraining a CLI is a very old problem, one security teams have been solving for at least 2 decades. Securing MCPs is an open problem. I'll take the CLI every time. | | |
| ▲ | brabel 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You should read the article, it explains very well why that is completely wrong. cLIs don’t have a good story about security, are you serious?? They either use a secret , in which case the LLM will have the exact same permission as you as a user, which is bonkers (not to mention the LLM can leak your secret now to anyone by making a simple curl request) and prevents AI auditing since it’s not the AI that seems to use the secret, it’s just you! And the other alternative is to run OAuth flows by making you authorize in the browser :). That at least allows some sort of auditing since the agent can use a specific OAuth client to authorize you. But now you have no ability to run the agent unattended, you will need to log in to every possible CLI service before you let the agent work, which means your agent is just sitting there with all your access. Ignorance about best security practices really makes this industry a joke. We need zero standing trust. Auditability. Minimum access required for a task. By letting your agent use your CLIs as if it was you, you throw away all of that. | | |
| ▲ | jmogly 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | OP never mentioned letting the agent run as him or use his secrets. All of the issues you mention can be solved by giving the agent it’s own set of secrets or using basic file permissions, which are table stakes. Back to the MCP debate, in a world where most web apis have a schema endpoint, their own authentication and authorization mechanisms, and in many instances easy to install clients in the form of CLIs … why do we need a new protocol, a new server, a new whatever. KISS |
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| ▲ | otabdeveloper4 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Just use a custom PATH and run in a chroot jail. CLI sandboxing is a solved problem compared to whatever MCP is. |
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| ▲ | locknitpicker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Why is this the right way to go? It's not solving the problem it looks like it's solving. If your challenge is that you need to communicate with a foreign API, the obvious solution to that is a progressively discoverable CLI or API specification --- the normal tool developers use. That sounds like a hack to get around the lack of MCP. If your goal is to expose your tools through an interface that a coding agent can easily parse and use, what compels you to believe throwing amorphous structured text is a better fit than exposing it through a protocol specially designed to provide context to a model? > The reason we have MCP is because early agent designs couldn't run arbitrary CLIs. Once you can run commands, MCP becomes silly. I think you got it backwards. Early agents couldn't handle, and the problem was solved with the introduction of an interface that models can easily handle. It became a solved problem. Now you only argue that if today's models work hard enough, they can be willed into doing something with tools without requiring a MCP. That's neat, but a silly way to reinvent the wheel - poorly. | |
| ▲ | phpnode 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | no, it's all about auth. MCP lets less-technical people plug their existing tools into agents. They can click through the auth flow in about 10 seconds and everything just works. They cannot run CLIs because they're not running anything locally, they're just using some web app. The creator of the app just needed to support MCP and they got connectivity with just about everything else that supports MCP. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Write better CLIs for the agents of the less-technical people. The MCPs you're talking about don't exist yet either. This doesn't seem complicated; MCP seems like a real dead end. | | |
| ▲ | phpnode 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | How are those CLIs being installed and run on hosted services? You'll need to sandbox them and have a way to install them automatically which seems difficult. How does the auth flow work? You'd need to invent some convention or write glue for each service. These are far more complicated than just using MCP, regardless of the benefits of the protocol itself. |
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| ▲ | simianwords 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This is absolutely necessary since you can (and will) use AI for a million different things the point is, is it necessary to create a new protocol? |
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| ▲ | hannasanarion 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Exactly this. I've made some MCP servers and attached tons of other people's MCP servers to my llms and I still don't understand why we can't just use OpenAPI. Why did we have to invent an entire new transport protocol for this, when the only stated purpose is documentation? | |
| ▲ | CharlieDigital 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | By and large, it is a very simple protocol and if you build something with it, you will see that it is just a series of defined flows and message patterns. When running over streamable HTTP, it is more or less just a simple REST API over HTTP with JSON RPC payload format and known schema. Even the auth is just OAuth. | |
| ▲ | paulddraper 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s not a new protocol. It’s JSON-RPC plus OAuth. (Plus a couple bits around managing a local server lifecycle.) | | |
| ▲ | drdaeman 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | World would be surely a saner place if instead of “MCP vs CLI” people would talk about “JSON-RPC vs execlp(3)”. Not accurate, but at least makes on think of the underlying semantics. Because, really, what matters is some DSL to discover and describe action invocations. |
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| ▲ | ambicapter 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If AI is AI, why does it need a protocol to figure out how to interact with HTTP, FTP, etc.? MCP is a way to quickly get those integrations up and running, but purely because the underlying technology has not lived up to its hyped abilities so far. That's why people think of MCP as a band-aid fix. |
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| ▲ | 8note 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why the desire to reinvent the wheel every time? Agents can do it accurately, but you have to wait for them to figure it out every time, and waste tokens on non-differentiated work The agents are writing the mcps, so they can figure out those http and ftp calls. MCP makes it so they dont have to every time they want to do something. I wouldnt hire a new person to read a manual and then make a bespoke json to call an http server, every single time i want to make a call, and thats not a knock on the person's intelligence. Its just a waste of time doing the same work over and over again. I want the results of calling the API, not to spend all my time figuring out how to call the API | | |
| ▲ | theptip 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s simply about making standard, centralized plugins available. Right now Claude benefits from a “link GitHub Connector” button with a clear manifest of actions. Obviously if the self-modifying, Clawd-native development thing catches on, any old API will work. (Preferably documented but that’s not a hard requirement.) For now though, Anthropic doesn’t host a clawd for you, so there isn’t yet a good way for it to persist customs integrations. |
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| ▲ | avereveard 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | C each ai need context management per conversation this is something that would be very clunky to replicate on top of http or ftp (as in requiring side channel information due session and conversation management) Everyone looks at api and sure mcp seem redundant there but look at agent driving a browser the get dom method depends on all the action performed from when the window opened and it needs to be per agent per conversation Can you do that as rest sure sneak a session and conversation in a parameter or cookie but then the protocol is not really just http is it it's all this clunky coupling that comes with a side of unknowns like when is a conversation finished did the client terminate or were just between messages and as you go and solve these for the hundredth time you'd start itching for standardization | | |
| ▲ | superturkey650 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | All MCP adds is a session token. How is that not already a solved problem? | | |
| ▲ | avereveard 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | P It makes it part of the protocol so the llm doesn't have to handle it, which is brittle And look at the patent post I've replied to choice of protocol, I'd like to see a session token over ftp where you need to track the current folder per conversation. |
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| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You mean, why not ask the AI to "find a way to use FTP", including either using a tool, or writing its own code? Besides the security issues? One simple reason is "determinism". If you ask the AI to "just figure it out", it will do that in different ways and you won't have a reliable experience. The protocol provides AI a way to do this without guessing or working in different ways, because the server does all the work, deterministically. But the second reason is, all the other reasons. There is a lot in the specification, that the AI literally cannot figure out, because it would require custom integration with every application and system. MCP is also a client/server distributed system, which "calling a tool" is not, so it does stuff that is impossible to do on your existing system, without setting up a whole other system... a system like MCP. And all this applies to both the clients, and the servers. Here's another way to think of it. The AI is a psychopath in prison. You want the psycho to pick up your laundry. Do you hand the psycho the keys to your car? Or do you hand him a phone, where he can call someone who is in charge of your car? Now the psycho doesn't need to know how to drive a car, and he can't drive it off a bridge. All he can do is talk to your driver and tell him where to go. And your driver will definitely not drive off a bridge or stab anyone. And this works for planes, trains, boats, etc, just by adding a phone in between. | |
| ▲ | CharlieDigital 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Because protocols provide structure that increases correctness. It is not a guarantee (as we see with structured output schemas), but it significantly increases compliance. | | |
| ▲ | ambicapter 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | You're interacting with an LLM, so correctness is already out the window. So model-makers train LLMs to work better with MCP to increase correctness. So the only reason correctness is increased with MCP is because LLMs are specifically trained against it. So why MCP? Are there other protocols that will provide more correctness when trained? Have we tried? Maybe a protocol that offers more compression of commands will overall take up more context, thus offering better correctness. MCP seems arbitrary as a protocol, because it kinda is. It doesn't >>cause<< the increase in correctness in of itself, the fact that it >>is<< a protocol is the reason it may increase correctness. Thus, any other protocol would do the same thing. | | |
| ▲ | fartfeatures 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > You're interacting with an LLM, so correctness is already out the window. With all due respect if you are prompting correctly and following approaches such as TDD / extensive testing then correctness is not out the window. That is a misunderstanding likely caused by older versions of these models. Correctness can be as complete as any other new code, I've used the AI to port algorithms from Python to Rust which I've then tested against math oracles and published examples. Not only can I check my code mathematically but in several instances I've found and fixed subtle bugs upstream. Even in well reviewed code that has been around for many years and is well used. It is simply a tool. | |
| ▲ | CharlieDigital 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > So why MCP? ... MCP seems arbitrary as a protocol
You're right, it is an arbitrary protocol, but it's one that is supported by the industry.See the screencaps at the end of the post that show why this protocol. Maybe one day, we will get a better protocol. But that day is not today; today we have MCP. |
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| ▲ | nonethewiser 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If AI is AI why does it need me to prompt it? | |
| ▲ | re-thc 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > If AI is AI That "AI" got renamed to "AGI" |
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| ▲ | troupo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| MCP is literally "define a bespoke API using this vibe-coded protocol over JSON-RPC". There's nothing more standard or reusable or application-agnostic about it than using an API over any of the existing protocols. |
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| ▲ | ekropotin 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I mean, CLI tool is also “reusable communication abstraction”, innit? |
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| ▲ | mmis1000 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Tell me how many ways that print help message for a command you have seen and say "reusable" again. Mcp is exactly exists to solve this. The rest is just json rpc with simple key value pairs. You can probably let llm guess the help flag and try to parse help message. But the success rate is totally depends on model you are using. |
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