| ▲ | jandrewrogers 7 hours ago |
| This post is a poor exposition of Crocker’s Rules. Crocker’s Rules were a reaction to the avoidance of direct discussion of topics where some people treat the mere act of discussion in any capacity as offensive. Sacred cows and taboos for which there are social consequences even when asking honest questions. Crocker’s Rules, practically speaking, were a declaration that no good faith discussion was intrinsically offensive ipso facto for the person making the declaration. All taboos were open to good faith arguments and attempts at rigorous intellectual inquiry. This article is focused too much on communication style and not enough on the subject of communication. The latter was the crux of it. Crocker’s Rules were about being able to rigorously discuss topics that society has deemed to be beyond discussion without taking offense at the fact it is being discussed. I was present when Crocker’s Rules were “invented”. I see a couple other handles here that may have been as well. |
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| ▲ | eucyclos 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This sounds like a refutation of the concept of taboos as a useful category, by the definition I use a taboo is something that may not be discussed openly. There's a theory that a culture without taboos is past it's peak in some important way- does crocker have any response to that criticism? |
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| ▲ | dxdm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If I understand you correctly, you are saying that taboos should not be examined from within the space where they hold effect, because doing so calls into question the whole concept of a taboo and robs all taboos of their usefulness, and that would summon evidence for, or even cause cultural decline? That sounds suspiciously like something a taboo would say that has something to fear from being looked at. ;) I think this chain of reasoning is made of links that do not self-evidently follow. From my lay perspective, taboos seem more complex, resilient and variable to require a perfectly dogmatic approach to hold up. If they were this easy to bring down, they'd all be gone. I'm also not sure what a "culture without taboos" is, or one has ever existed. Also, what is meant by "peak"? Is there an optimal amount or set of taboos? How do cultures with taboo-ical differences (and their peaks) compare to each other across space and time? I think it is good and healthy to approach taboos with curiosity, whether it is to interrogate them or to appreciate them more. | |
| ▲ | rendaw an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've heard of taboos forbidding discussion in religious contexts, for religious (superstitious) reasons, but what definition of taboo are you using that it doesn't just mean "forbidden"? There's a taboo to marrying your blood sibling, but discussing such marriages is fine. If a culture generally allowed marrying such a sibling I think it'd be past its peak, maybe. But I don't see how discussing it would contribute to that. | |
| ▲ | jojomodding 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is the critique any more substantial than "the vibes are off?" | |
| ▲ | plasticchris 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It probably depends on the measure used to define peak, but the removal of arbitrary limits on honest intellectual inquiry has huge benefits, eg the enlightenment, science, etc. |
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| ▲ | Barbing 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Anyone have a preferred resource? I do appreciate the OP as it stands! |
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| ▲ | jiggawatts 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I subscribe to the thesis of Death of the Author, that just because someone came up with something, it doesn't necessarily given them a permanent special privilege in its interpretation. Everybody can understand the work as they prefer, and if anything, the work takes on a life of its own in greater society and evolves together with it. (Hence the limits on the duration of copyright.) This is why many common idioms are now used in their opposite meaning, and we all understand, and it's fine. As a random example, "It's all downhill from here" can mean either "it gets easier" or "it gets worse". The meaning has changed over time. Also: "I could care less", etc... > This article is focused too much on communication style and not enough on the subject of communication. The latter was the crux of it. Crocker’s Rules were about being able to rigorously discuss topics that society has deemed to be beyond discussion without taking offense at the fact it is being discussed. That's a distinction that's not as clear cut as you think. The problem in the workplace setting is that the subject is the code/system/product/organisation, which has no feelings and hence can't be offended, but many people feel compelled to use an overly verbose style in order to avoid offending the humans charged with the care of the unfeeling object. There is a certain freedom in treating things as things and calling out their objective properties as is, instead of dancing around the facts. This is the very same thing as talking plainly and directly about taboo or sensitive subjects. Just do it! It's fine! |
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| ▲ | rkomorn 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > the subject is the code/system/product/organisation, which has no feelings and hence can't be offended This is like saying that telling someone their artwork sucks is not offensive because "the artwork has no feelings." | | |
| ▲ | gilleain an hour ago | parent [-] | | Someone's artwork _should_ be possible to (negatively) criticise. Of course, just saying "it sucks" is not constructive or helpful. You can definitely hurt someone's feeling with unconstructive criticism of thier art. However, pointing out areas to improve should not be too painful to the artist, as they can make newer, better works. I suppose a difficuly can arise if people get too attached to things they make (art, code, writing, whatever) and don't see any one thing as just a step on the road to even better things. | | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think my roundabout point is that companies, code, policies, etc aren't just "things without emotions that can't be offended" because they're all made (or maintained) by people (like art). I agree with all your points. |
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| ▲ | normie3000 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > "I could care less" Do people really say this? Is it exclusive? I've only heard the inverse: "I couldn't care less". Edit: genuine question. Please explain downvotes! | | |
| ▲ | Anthony-G 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I assumed it was an American thing. I've never heard anyone on this side of the Atlantic say it – even though Americanisms are being adopted more by the younger generations who are more influenced by online culture. | |
| ▲ | dxdm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People really say this ("I could care less") to express that they do not care at all. I've seen it happen here on this site. Calling out the sheer absurdity of it, even in a respectful way, is not universally well-received. Unfortunately, I could care less about this, as it sounds very grating to me. I try to remember that I ain't got no problem with other "illogical" uses of negation and could this one in a similar light, but it's more easily said than done. | |
| ▲ | kstenerud 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People really do say this, among other curious expressions that have fallen into common use. You're being down voted for nit picking language. | |
| ▲ | dogman1050 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I hear this expression said with the incorrect "could" more often than than with the correct "couldn't." I attribute this to one of the following: - the speaker is using wry sarcasm, although the inflection is usually wrong. - the speaker actually does care a bit. - it's easier to say "could" or it's habit. I try not to be a pedant about this, but often fall. Yeah, I'm fun at parties. | |
| ▲ | tkgally 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They don’t explain the downvotes, but here are some discussions of the expression: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/could-couldnt-care-l... https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/I-COULDN-T-care-... https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/pardon-the-expression/i-... | |
| ▲ | jszymborski 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Downvotes are likely coming from the fact that this comment is quite off topic / doesn't reply to the substance of the comment you are replying to. While it's often not helpful for folks to point out that something is a quick internet search away, performing one is usually best before going off topic. Doing so would have resulted in the answer to your question pretty quick. |
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