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strken 9 hours ago

> There might be a good reason why smart people want to avoid looking stupid ... The only plausible explanation is that our egos are fragile

I disagree with this, at least in how it regards ego as pointless.

Humans are tuned to win a delicate social competition by becoming popular and therefore having a bunch of kids with other popular (and therefore reproductively successful) people. The most plausible explanation is that our ancestors have been through millions of years of evolutionary selection to try to become the most popular in a social group by taking risks, but then cease all risk-taking and guard their position after they get there.

Ego is the mechanism by which this happens, but it's there for a reason. Social status is really, really important - if you don't buy the evolutionary reasons, it's still important for basic human connection. We haven't always lived in societies which are so open to failure, experimentation, or looking stupid.

ahf8Aithaex7Nai 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Somehow, it always triggers my skepticism when supposedly sociobiological or evolutionary anthropological or evolutionary psychological arguments are brought up. My suspicion is that it is far too easy to simply pack in the story you want to have in there. I can think of dozens of objections to your description. For example, in small groups, the social game in terms of status may not be that complex, and the choice for pairings may be very limited.

I'll leave it at that because I don't want to write a novel. But when I look at your description, I don't see any plausibility at all. I only see projections. Like in The Flintstones or in old movies about Stone Age people, who have strangely short haircuts and go hunting the way people go to work today. What I mean is: the social dynamics you're assuming here may be primarily shaped by your experiences in the present and are far from as universal as you believe.

WalterBright 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've never encountered a person who was attracted to a stupid person.

BTW, the Flintstones is just The Honeymooners without Jackie Gleason. One could also argue that Family Guy and The Simpsons are also reboots of The Honeymooners.

> who have strangely short haircuts and go hunting the way people go to work today

"They're the modern stone age family" are the words in the Flintstones' theme song.

pbhjpbhj 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Never heard of "bimbos"/"himbos"?

strken 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fair enough, but if you remove the evo psych explanation you're still left with "people don't want to look stupid in front of their peers because it might have consequences". This seems plausible to me regardless.

casualscience 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Even in small groups, being respected and considered valuable is important? I'm not sure what you mean here.

I take your point, and I too get triggered when people invoke mate selection and dopamine. I could be with you in being skeptical about that specific angle... but absolutely if you look at lawless or less institutionalized cultures, there is a trend towards appearing strong/tough and hiding any weaknesses

rapnie 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can we ascribe it all to ego, I wonder, or is it just one of several mechanics at play, albeit an important one. A Dutch saying is that there's a lid for every pot ("op elk potje past een dekseltje") i.e. that the most unlikely people still manage to find a partner and form a family. That very clumsy person who stutters, and is perceived by an ego-driven person as "a loser" still finds someone who thinks they are adorable and attractive.

smackeyacky 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe not adorable and attractive, but just enough to settle for.

mettamage 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

At work I dare to look stupid and in my friend group too. It hasn’t always led to a good outcome since people simply believe you’re actually stupid and the problem with that is that they don’t take you seriously enough. Now, you can say: their loss. But man, I need to eat. With friends, sure. At work? After years of looking stupid, I had enough of it.

Also finding a partner is mostly about being silly with each other. So looking a bit stupid is a plus there and had no issues about it on that front

WalterBright 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Being silly is not being stupid. Being stupid is investing in lottery tickets, driving drunk, etc.

tokioyoyo 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not sure if this is the right place to respond, but I’ve only seen this play in situations where people visibly want to look better than others, because they feel insecure about their status.

Frankly, I have no idea how to explain it in words, but when you’re in a setting where everyone knows they’re good at their own thing, but also know the others are also exceptional at their thing, this game goes away. Like it actually becomes the opposite. Everyone calls themselves stupid, become more cordial, and things get fun. Trying to not to look stupid signals negative status, or whatever you call it.

It’s very funny to write this out, because I’ve never thought about it on purpose. Everything has just felt natural at the time of the event.

AznHisoka 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> Social status is really, really important - if you don't buy the evolutionary reasons, it's still important for basic human connection.

You dont want to do dumb things that might get you in jail and have rveryone shun you.

But should u be so afraid of brusing your ego that you shy away from: starting a business (if u have the financial means), asking someone out, publishing something in public, etc

Sometimes evolution overshoots, esp when our environment changes

9rx 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The actual most plausible explanation becomes clear when you rearrange the words into the right order: "There might be a good reason why people who want to avoid looking stupid are smart ..." Forcing oneself to become smart is the only escape from looking stupid.

Jensson 8 hours ago | parent [-]

"The people I think are smart are those that try to look smart", that is the most plausible. There are probably many smart people who aren't afraid of looking stupid that you think are stupid for that reason.

Personally I dislike people who never say stupid things, because they are focusing too much on appearances and too little on trying to figure things out.

9rx 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> "The people I think are smart are those that try to look smart", that is the most plausible.

The story does not appear to define smart as "not looking stupid", rather something more towards "mastered the creative process".

There is only so much time in the day. An hour spent in interaction where you might look stupid is an hour not spent directly working on your craft. The most plausible explanation is that those who don't want to look stupid turn towards becoming smart as the escape. As in, a tendency to use time spent alone locked up in a room learning how to use a new tool instead of galavanting at an art show is what makes them become smart.

paganel 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree with the popular thing, but only up to a point, for a certain type of people, or from a certain age on (for me this latter case holds true), competing against other people just isn't a valid concern anymore, the societal "recognition" stops being a thing.

In my case, and I suppose this holds true for others, too, the "fiercest" competition is with one's inner-self or, at the very most, with past/dead/way-out-of-line-of-sight "competitors" that have nothing to do with current society and its recognition. I know that this "competing against one-self" sounds trite, but, again, this is how things are for some of us.

polywanna 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

ryanjshaw 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> It exists only for the people who think it exists

Right. Which means it does exist. And the point of the article is to bring about self awareness of the phenomenon so that people can improve.

I think you have the same goal with your comment, but your style of communication needs work.

Ironically, I would argue you might benefit from caring a little about how others perceive you.

krelian 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you thought about why they developed a need for intellectual validation?

abcde666777 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you're a little quick to hand wave the phenomenon away, as if it's purely a social construct that people care about how they appear to others.

bravura 8 hours ago | parent [-]

You and GGP both wrong in ironic ways.

GGP says don't care about X because it's a social phenomenon, but frequently this position is a form of social identification.

You say: X might deeper than social, implying that social phenomena are not important. Thus agreeing with GP.

[edit: my position is pragmatic: If there's a broad or important phenomenon, your position on it should be individualized to the value of the phenomenon itself, not based upon some theory-of-origin category assignment.]