| ▲ | torgoguys 5 hours ago |
| I don't know much about this, but wouldn't the description of this imply you're stimulating the body to be in an a long-term situation that would be commonly viewed as unpleasant (inflamed, maybe nasal drainage, that type of thing) with the positive tradeoff that you get fewer actual infections? |
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| ▲ | MathMonkeyMan 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Yep! But you are also a mouse who has limited venues in which to complain. I wonder if the vaccine causes inflammatory and other unpleasant responses when administered. If so, I wonder if those responses go away after the last dose, when the three months of protection begin. Here are the two paragraphs that I found interesting: > The new vaccine, for now known as GLA-3M-052-LS+OVA, mimics the T cell signals that directly stimulate innate immune cells in the lungs. It also contains a harmless antigen, an egg protein called ovalbumin or OVA, which recruits T cells into the lungs to maintain the innate response for weeks to months. > In the study, mice were given a drop of the vaccine in their noses. Some recieved multiple doses, given a week apart. Each mouse was then exposed to one type of respiratory virus. With three doses of the vaccine, mice were protected against SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses for at least three months. |
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| ▲ | Terr_ 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It also contains a harmless antigen, an egg protein called ovalbumin or OVA Here's hoping the final product doesn't have a side-effect of inducing an allergy to the main component of egg-whites. Although even if that happened... Would it only apply to the raw materials, as opposed to cooked products where the ovalbumin was denatured by heat? Edit: No, wait! What about "safe to eat" cookie-dough, which uses heat-treated flour and pasteurized eggs as ingredients!? The might still have intact ovalbumin, and obviously I can't give it up. |
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| ▲ | Animats 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Right, that's been mentioned elsewhere. A new area of research has opened up. This approach may be more useful for treatment than prevention. It's not really a vaccine; it's more like an induced vaccine response. Keeping the immune system in that state full time might be a problem. But after an infection, that's what's wanted. |
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| ▲ | rossdavidh 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think that "vaccine" is really not the right word to use for this; they sound as different as bandages and blood transfusions. But if it works as advertised, it could be useful if used in the right situation. I do wonder if the kind of people who got vaccinated 10 times against Covid-19 will end up trying to get a sniff of this every month? Kind of like how we overuse antibiotics in cleaners. It seems like it would be best if saved for an "oh shoot" kind of situation. |
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| ▲ | rzzzt 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Me neither, but I got something similar from the abstract that I was about to ask, so adding it here: "Following infection, vaccinated mice mounted rapid pathogen-specific T cell and antibody responses and formed ectopic lymphoid structures in the lung." That latter term (ectopic lymphoid structure) comes up in connection with persistent inflammation where the immune system sets up camp near the problem point. Is this good or bad? Do these go away once the infection clears up? |
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| ▲ | dillydogg 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | These are pretty common, physiologic structures associated with infections. They can be just a handful of cells on a slide or be quite large, and I don't know what they found in these infections. I didn't read the original paper. The ectopic lymphoid structures go away after the infection resolves. It seems that the immune system has ways to set up mini lymph node architecture right by the site of infections, which is very sensible. The same process is going on in a more organized way in the draining lymph node in parallel. Research into these was really hot in the 2010s, but people don't seem to be as into them anymore (but my research has also transitioned to innate immunity from adaptive, so it's likely that I'm no longer in that universe). In general, it doesn't surprise me that when you prime the innate immune system, the adaptive immune system works well. The problem is that pathogens have an incredible suite of tools ready to evade these mechanisms. The doses of the pathogens are typically insanely high too, which I do not think model natural infections well. Anyways, this is intriguing, so I'll take a look at the original paper one of these days. Vaccine research generally is so boring. It's like, we vaccinated, and it worked, or didn't, no mechanism. |
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| ▲ | ivan_gammel 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Or worse. If it is so easy to activate, there must be an evolutionary reason why we don’t have it. |
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| ▲ | gcanyon 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think you have evolution backwards. There only needs to not be a reason we need it to survive long enough to reproduce. Or more probabilistically, there needs to not be a significant reproductive benefit to it. And bear in mind that most people don't have a problem surviving colds and the like long enough to reproduce even with no vaccines at all, and that was probably more true for much of our evolutionary history when we were living much more isolated lives, and not cohabiting with chickens and pigs. | | |
| ▲ | ivan_gammel 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >There only needs to not be a reason we need it to survive long enough to reproduce. Humans had life expectancy even shorter than our fertility period until recently and they developed as social species hundreds of thousands years ago, for which living beyond fertility period is beneficial (grandparents were invented by evolution too). > And bear in mind that most people don't have a problem surviving colds That’s modern people with access to antibiotics etc. > that was probably more true for much of our evolutionary history when we were living much more isolated lives, and not cohabiting with chickens and pigs For much of our evolutionary history people were eating animals, getting viruses with them. |
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| ▲ | tshaddox an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There doesn’t need to be an evolutionary reason why we don’t have something. That’s the default! | | |
| ▲ | ivan_gammel 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If something clearly helps survival and not an improbable thing to develop, the chances are high we would already have it. But we don’t and most species don’t. It is not the default, there likely exists a reason why. |
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| ▲ | MarkusQ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Systemic cost. We could have paper shredders, blenders, toasters, water taps, and so on that just ran all the time, but our utility bills would be ginormous. Same thing for our bodies. | | | |
| ▲ | Rexxar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe it would made the immune system age faster if it is "used" too much. | | |
| ▲ | ekianjo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Inflammation is certainly not "free". It causes systemic damage. |
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| ▲ | standardUser 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| People with severe allergies or at high risk would probably make the tradeoff even if side effects were a problem. If they're not a problem, I could see most people taking this regularly just to avoid the nuisance of respiratory infections. |
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| ▲ | infinitewars 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Yes, I've had exactly this ever since my first COVID experience. If I come across anyone with even a tiny level of COVID or flu, it sets of inflammation in my lungs within minutes. Haven't gotten sick in six years now but this inflammation has happened probably one hundred times and is indeed quite unpleasant. |