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Sohcahtoa82 4 hours ago

> Most common support calls where for things that were explained in the manual, the out of box experience, tutorial documents, FAQ pages, and so on and so forth.

My brother used to work at tech support for XBox Live.

He said that 80% of his calls were for password resets, something users can easily self-service. There's literally an option on the login form for "Forgot Password", and people would rather spend time calling up support, waiting on hold, and verifying their identity to a support agent than click a button.

And it's not like the password reset flow was any easier going through support. He'd just trigger a password reset e-mail to be sent, exactly like the user hitting Forgot Password.

And this is after the phone tree tells them "If you forgot your password, click the Forgot Password link".

I always think about this when people demand they should be able to talk to a human. The overwhelming number of callers to tech support don't need a human. Giving everybody the ability to speak to a human just isn't feasible.

I have an uncle that works tech support for XFinity. Half his calls are resolved by just power cycling the modem/router. People shouldn't need a human to tell them to do that.

redox99 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Power cycling is not a solution. It's a crappy workaround, and you still had downtime because of it. The device should never get stuck in the first place, and the solution for that is fixing whatever bug is in the firmware.

If they want to reduce support calls, then have more reliable gear.

chimeracoder 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> Power cycling is not a solution. It's a crappy workaround, and you still had downtime because of it. The device should never get stuck in the first place, and the solution for that is fixing whatever bug is in the firmware.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that companies should make support calls less necessary by providing better products and services, but "just write bug-free software" is not a solution.

wtallis 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Giving the device enough RAM to survive memory leaks during heavy usage would also be a valid option, as is automatic rebooting to get the device back into a clean state before the user experiences a persistent loss of connectivity. There are a wealth of available workarounds when you control everything about the device's hardware and software and almost everything about the network environments it'll be operating in. Fixing all the tricky, subtle software bugs is not necessary.

ambicapter 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A memory leak will consume any amount of ram by definition, adding more ram is not a solution either.

esyir 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For a community full of engineers, I'm always surprised that people always take absolutionist views on minor technical decisions, rather than thinking of the tradeoffs made that got there.

andrew_lettuce 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The obvious trade off here is engineering effort vs. development cost, and when the tech support solution is "have you tried turning it off, then on again?" We know which path was chosen

DonHopkins 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You can't just throw RAM at embedded devices that you make millions of and have extremely thin margins on. Have you bothered to look at the price of RAM today? At high numbers and low margins you can barely afford to throw capacitors at them, let alone precious rare expensive RAM.

Lammy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, XFinity are the ones who decided their routers “““need””” to have unwanted RAM-hungry extra functionality beyond just serving their residential customers' needs. Their routers participate in an entire access-sharing system so they can greedily double-dip by reselling access to your own connection that you already pay them for:

- https://www.xfinity.com/learn/internet-service/wifi

- https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/xfinity-wifi-hotspo...

wtallis 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We're talking about devices where the retail price is approximately one month of revenue from one customer, and that's if there isn't an extra fee specifically for the equipment rental. Yes, consumer electronics tend to have very thin margins, but residential ISPs are playing a very different game.

andrew_lettuce 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The thing is a YOU don't get to decide this. Maybe the PW reset flow is significantly more complex for some people who don't have an actual human walk them though it; maybe Xfinity routers shouldn't need to be power cycled to fix problems. Maybe corporations should make their products better to avoid do many support calls or price that into the purchase price. At least let's be honest that the entire exercise is an attempt to externalize costs on their customers.

godelski 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've called for password resets before. Sometimes the email doesn't come in or can take like an hour (fuck "Magic links" and email OTPs...). I've even had support reset it and a day later get the half dozen reset requests I made.

Just because something appears simple and obvious doesn't mean it is. There's a lot of ways for those systems to fail. Might be the user's connection or might be the server the user is connecting to and the customer support is sending through a different one.

Big lesson I've learned is that if a lot of people are struggling with something that seems obvious then it probably isn't.

Mikhail_Edoshin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I just remembered my password reset battle with an online store. Yes, the email or the SMS took too long to arrive and when the code came, it was already expired. And I knew the password, by the way; it was just a "new browser" and they wanted a second authentication. Marvelous.

godelski an hour ago | parent [-]

I once had a credit card company not let me add my card to my Google wallet because I didn't have the physical card, even though they sent me the virtual one... it had been 3 weeks and for their rewards I needed to spend X amount in 3 months. I had to call to verify my identity. Though I think that friction was on purpose

ocdtrekkie 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The problem is consumers are the ones who decided this. I used to only buy web hosting from companies with 24/7 US based phone tech support. Today this basically doesn't exist, because cheaper options not offering it ate their lunch.

wtallis 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Half his calls are resolved by just power cycling the modem/router. People shouldn't need a human to tell them to do that.

Comcast deserves every penny of customer service expenses they're incurring if their own purpose-built modem/routers are so flaky they're responsible for half the problems people experience with their service. Customers should not be expected to endure shitty products without even seeking help from the service provider that owes them better.

By contrast, I've seen Google Fiber proactively issue a partial refund in response to a service outage that was so short I didn't even notice it.

Terr_ an hour ago | parent [-]

> their own purpose-built modem/routers

Which, last I knew, were leased-out with their line-item on the monthly bill. So it's not as if they aren't choosing (and charging-for) the situation.

My own modem and router paid for themselves very quickly.

TZubiri 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This mentality is how you get

"Hi, thank you for your message, please take a look at our following FAQ guides:

- I forgot my password

Was this answer useful to you, or would you like more links to our FAQ? Before we give you a link to what used to be a talk to a human line, but which has been replaced by another chatbot in a sort of Matryoshka"

pydry 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had a friend who worked for a company that built AI call centres. I naively thought that customers would use it to do "password reset" type workflows and have an escape hatch for customers to talk to a human if the AI couldnt handle what they needed.

Surprisingly few of them wanted that. If the AI couldnt handle their issue they mostly wanted customers to just fuck off.

bluefirebrand 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> If the AI couldnt handle their issue they mostly wanted customers to just fuck off.

Witness the future of business and society

onetokeoverthe 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

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