| ▲ | std_move 3 hours ago |
| This is the best laptop for the general consumer around $1k. - it has no annoying fans, it is completely silent
- a high res display with no PWM flickering and reasonable response times, no burn-in issues, enough brightness for outdoor use
- best-in-class hardware, very very efficient, amazing single thread performance, good multi thread, very good GPU
- no Microsoft Windows annoyances, ads, bloatware, broken stuff all the time
- much better real world performance on battery than x64 processors (!). you can get reasonable perf by setting Intel/AMD CPUs to high perf, but then goodbye battery life and get ready for very loud fans. this is simply a point not emphasized enough, the real world battery perf of Intel/AMD laptops is very sluggish on default power modes and despite that, they consume more battery than the M5
- amazing battery life
- good workmanship, no creaking, good hardware overall (mics, webcam, keyboard, touchpad!)
- very good speakers
There is simply nothing comparable in the Windows laptop world. You can maybe get a cheaper Windows laptop but it will be terrible in almost everything - the new Apple budget MacBooks will probably be a much better choice. And around $1000, there is no comparison. I wish it was different. |
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| ▲ | mikae1 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| > You can maybe get a cheaper Windows laptop but it will be terrible in almost everything It will be worse at almost everything, except running my preferred OS (Linux). Being able to upgrade/repair RAM, storage and battery at home is quite a perk too. |
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| ▲ | jruz 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Not on the latest but I’m happily running Asahi NixOS | | |
| ▲ | mikae1 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Even for the M1 generation feature support is not complete. Also, this a thread about current models. Asahi is still awesome though! | | |
| ▲ | dangus 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | And if you are comparing against an M1 you can find multiple PC laptops that will beat that out in performance and still have a quiet/cool/long battery life operation. Apple is only ahead of competition in their latest two or generations. I don’t personally think Windows is so bad compared to Mac in terms of annoyances. Mac nags you about all of Apple’s services and you can’t even uninstall their apps like News and Stocks. Microsoft even lets you uninstall Notepad. If we are talking about buying a used Mac we are also talking about buying a computer that will lose software support before the Windows equivalent historically. E.g., you buy an M2 MacBook Air and you’ve got about 7 years left or less before you lose major OS versions. Almost guarantee you that won’t be the case with any reasonably recent Windows PC that supports 11 today. |
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| ▲ | noman-land an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "it has no annoying fans" I beg to differ ;) |
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| ▲ | wisplike 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I wish it was different Amen to that, my keyboard on my m1 air recently failed. I was horrified to find out it is literally riveted to the frame. I got this close to buying a new one. Something annoyed me about this perfectly good laptop being rendered compltely useless and I ended up buying a replacement keyboard, ripping out the old one and shimming this one with paper. Its not perfect but here I am typing from it. But you are 100% right, there is just nothing better on the market. The gap is so big. |
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| ▲ | sonofhans 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The riveting sounds, as you say, horrifying. Congrats on making it your own again. It’s still remarkable to me that it’s even possible to do it at all. The amount of tech and miniaturization crammed into that thing — it would be easier for them to rivet, weld, and glue every part, and cheaper. And if the build quality weren’t so high to begin with, it wouldn’t have withstood the repair at all. A good friend has a Framework, and it’s cool as hell, but incredibly primitive compared with your M1. |
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| ▲ | elAhmo 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fully agree. I used to have a company issued MBP M3 Pro, and when I switched roles I got myself base M4 Air. Can't complain at all in the past year, I do feel throttling at times when running longer tasks, but for 99% of the time I don't feel I need anything better. And I do work as a software developer, so anyone doing lighter usage not in this camp will feel the same. M5 Air should be pretty much the same. |
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| ▲ | lurking_swe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| you forgot to mention the touchpad. MUCH nicer than the competitor touchpads. especially if you use some of the advanced gestures (some are hidden in accessibility settings). |
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| ▲ | lotsofpulp an hour ago | parent [-] | | You can also close the lid and trust it to stay off and open it up even a week later and resume at the same place you left off with very little battery usage. How no one else can figure out how to do this in almost 15 years or more is beyond me. | | |
| ▲ | zonkerdonker an hour ago | parent [-] | | Its absolutley mind boggling. My work machine (lenovo) regualry roasts itself to 0% battery in my backpack during my commute |
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| ▲ | odiroot 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If this one is anything like the previous ones, ThinkPad is still beating it in the keyboard department. Plus you get x86_64 and vendor support for Linux. X13 is probably the best equivalent in Lenovo's line. |
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| ▲ | Findecanor 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Not just low key travel. Here in Europe, Mac keyboards have an anemic vertical Return key. Its widest point is as wide as the `\` key on a US keyboard. No such issues on ThinkPads. | |
| ▲ | junga 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's not much difference between the keyboard of the X13 Gen 6 and the keyboard of the MacBook Pro M1. I own both devices. The keyboard of my T14s Gen 1 on the other hand is noticeably better. | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > X13 is probably the best equivalent in Lenovo's line. I think the X1 Carbon line is the best direct competitor. | |
| ▲ | alfiedotwtf 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How’s ACPI and real suspend (not that “fake” soft suspend) these days? I’m still burned after running Linux on a laptop since 2002 and not having proper power management for suspend :( … if it’s not the power layer, it’s the network, video, Bluetooth that won’t power up anymore after a nap | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > How’s ACPI and real suspend On a current ThinkPad? Essentially perfect. Zero problems suspending and resuming, no matter what's going on, including weird cases like suspending while docked and resuming while undocked or vice versa. | |
| ▲ | winrid an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's a toss up. Works great on my 2017 X1 Extreme. Doesn't work on old 4th Gen i3/i5 E550 thinkpads I refurbish, etc. |
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| ▲ | orthoxerox 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If only it didn't have to run OSX. |
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| ▲ | std_move 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, I am not a huge fan either. I would much prefer Linux or a very customized Windows. For instance, the inability to write to NTFS filesystems without addons is annoying. But I believe that for most users, the default MacOS experience is now much better than what Windows is with default settings. | | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | On my Mac is is beachball… beachball… beachball… reboot… beachball… beachball… beachball.. you’d have thought somebody gets paid to make me watch the beachball for how much it happens. And this is a top of the line M4 mini with maxed out RAM and everything. | | |
| ▲ | eknkc 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I had forgotten that mac has a beachball cursor. Something’s wrong on your macbook. (M4 max here) | | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What am I supposed to do, drive 300 miles to the nearest Genius Bar? | | |
| ▲ | madeofpalk 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What would you do if your non-Apple computer was having performance issues? | | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd say this. I haven't had a Windows desktop computer with serious problems since 2007. I had a long string of Windows laptops that were basically OK from maybe 2013 to 2023 except for problems with USB that got progressively worse over time (for each machine.) I think some of them were were real hardware problems but I think also the USB 3 spec doesn't guarantee that you can plug in very many devices and have it work, it depends on the PCIe architecture inside the machine. That "ding" sound when a USB device disconnects from windows has traumatized me and I've turned it off anywhere where I can because it is like a gunshot to a Vietnam vet. I found very little literature about other Windows laptops users facing these problems but endless posts by AppleCare frequent fliers who seem to spend their lives at the Genius Bar and getting their old defective laptops replaced with new defective laptops, I think Windows users just expect it to be all screwed up. For a long time Windows has struggled with processes that suck down a lot of resources at boot time. At home it is things that do software updates and saturate my 2x20Mbps internet connection. At work it is the backup program that saturates my Ethernet. | |
| ▲ | bornfreddy an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Debug it? Swap some components? Good luck with that on that shiny closed box. |
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| ▲ | stefanfisk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What have you tried? | | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule an hour ago | parent [-] | | Mostly getting stuff done on the Windows machine in the next room or playing music off a different stereo or playing music on cassette tape or minidisc on the same stereo, etc. It's easier to fall back to a world of 20th century electronics where latency is imperceptible than it is to dive into a world of third-party apps that were all designed around somebody's inscrutable KPIs but didn't consider at all my convenience or inconvenience. Probably it is Creative Cloud updating or some software for the mouse or some kind of crap and if I sat in front of the machine for 30 minutes it might settle down but it's rare that I sit in front of it for 30 minutes. It used to be that kind of thing wrecked the Windows experience but over a long period of time Microsoft did a lot of work to balance to load of startup processes and mostly you don't feel it. My wife browses the web a lot on that Mac, she hasn't complained since I installed Firefox + uBlock Origin but maybe she expects it to be slow. |
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| ▲ | timothyduong 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Base m4 Mac mini. Only beach balling is when I saturate 16GB with compiles and builds. That thing of yours is a lemon. | | |
| ▲ | bobbane an hour ago | parent [-] | | Lemons do happen with Apple Silicon. I had a Mac Studio that would kernel panic on a semi-weekly basis. Apple Care put me through the reinstall OS / remove all external devices tap-dance for weeks, insisting that hardware was the last thing to suspect - before Apple Silicon, kernel panics were almost always hardware, particularly RAM. Ultimately I bought another Studio and swapped it in - kernel panics went away. With that evidence, Apple acknowledged the problem and exchanged my Studio for another one from the factory. I returned the swap unit within the 30 day window, so it didn't cost me anything but annoyance. | | |
| ▲ | darkwater 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Needing to shell out... what? 2000 bucks to prove Apple Support they were wrong seems a very, very bad sign for that Support. Even if you got them back. |
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| ▲ | storus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My 128GB RAM M3 Max had logic board replaced 3x and I am still getting beachball alongside screen falling apart in blocks... There is something wrong with their firmware, especially when you are switching between multiple users often. | | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | WTF are you doing with it? Mine doesn't do that (M4 Pro MBP / 24Gb) | | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Try to browse the web. Try to listen to music with Plexamp. Ordinary boring stuff but I think it is looking all over Slovakia for my AirPods or something so it can take them away from whatever machine I really want to use them on. The feeling is exactly like the way it was with Windows circa 2005 when you expected your machine to go bad like cheese in a few months. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you sure yours isn't broken? My daughter has an M4 and she does hefty biochem stuff on it. No beachballing or anything. Same with my M4 Pro. Also airpods move instantly here. No issues. | |
| ▲ | K0balt an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Something is seriously wrong with your machine or one of the persistent apps you are running. Backup, reset to factory. Try using it, if it’s fixed, try restoring. If it’s not fixed it’s defective in some way. If it’s broken only after you restore, manually import your data and install apps one at a time making sure nothing breaks before installing the next. |
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| ▲ | beacon294 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My problem was simply chrome so I switched to brave. | |
| ▲ | HoldOnAMinute 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How many Electron apps are you running? |
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| ▲ | PaulHoule 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’ll add that MacOS is crammed with spammy ads for Apple Music and other services I don’t want. To be fair somebody wants Apple Music whereas the Microsoft versions of those things are completely unwanted. Ads and nags in the Windows World are drawn using the same HTML-based technology that has replaced Windows native apps since Windows 8, the ads and nags in MacOS are the 2025 anti-antialiased retreads of the 1999 MacOS X imitations of the modal dialogs from 1984 MacOS classic. It’s sad. When I set up a new Mac for my wife she was furious at how ad infested it was, especially to browse the web with Safari and if you want to add an ad blocked you need an Apple Account which is something she’s done without using macs for 20+ years. | | |
| ▲ | timothyduong 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just wait til she jumps on a windows 11 device! But I do agree with you. Thankfully it is minimal relative to windows. | | |
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| ▲ | bilegeek 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Eventually Asahi will catch up... if Apple doesn't turn around and purposely make it harder, hopefully we didn't just get lucky they were feeling "benevolent" with earlier M-series. | | |
| ▲ | cromka 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I believe they'll make it easier, actually. With this hardware at these prices, if they offered BootCamp again for Linux and Windows, they'd basically own the market almost overnight. |
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| ▲ | overfeed 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why the restriction to laptops? I don't get why prosumers would marry themselves 24/7 to a single portable device, when their conflicting requirements vary by task and circumstances: portability, high performance, low energy usage, and low noise aren't permanent requirements. Sure, there's no single device that has Apple's blend of attributes, but who need that in this age of VMs and broadband Internet? My 32-core HEDT workstation outperforms anything Apple branded. I have a Chromebook when I need to be unplugged (<10% or the time) |
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| ▲ | anakaine 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > My 32-core HEDT workstation outperforms anything Apple branded Your high end hardware is not their target market / competition until you get into very purposeful tasks. The market segment that exists for Macbook Pro is one where competitors battery life sucks, windows isnt the preferred OS, and high performance on a portable device on battery is beneficial. Its one where they have acceptable performance vs a dedicated desktop but remain portable and a good expected lifespan, as a portable. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Your high end hardware is not their target market / competition until you get into very purposeful tasks. Here's the kicker: it cost about the same as the highest end Macbook pro before the RAM madness. > The market segment that exists one where battery life sucks, windows isnt the preferred OS, and some high performance on a portable device on battery is beneficial. I agree the market exists, but think it's much smaller than it appears: most people do not work under these constraints most of the time; a cheap laptop + beefy desktop could do a better job in aggregate, wirh greater flexibility, especially for people who spend most of their time at the desk with their computer plugged in - which is most people. I suspect the portability requirement is sometimes aspirational, similar to the people who buy trucks overestimating the number of times they'll need to cary stuff on the truck bed. |
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| ▲ | freeone3000 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > but who needs that? I’m really happy with bringing my local workstation with me to a cafe, a coworking space, or on a trip. I love conveniently having one device for nearly everything, from AI fine-tuning to general development to gaming. And I love having a 12-hour battery life under normal use and USB-C charging. The screen is beautiful and great for watching movies on, too. If you want one computing device, in total, a MacBook is a great choice. It’s overkill in most areas for most people, but it’s not deficient for anyone, and that matters a lot. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > I’m really happy with bringing my local workstation with me to a cafe, a coworking space, or on a trip You can, with Tailscale! I had edited my original comment to remove how I occasionally[1] remote to the workstation, but I found out empirically that I typically don't do anything that needs more than 2 cores at a cafe - a $300 Chromebook or $100 second-hand laptop will do. By all means, if the Macbook hits your sweet-spot of trade-offs, more power to you. CAR Brand A may have the quickest, most-fuel-efficient, all-wheel drive convertible, compact coupe, but there are other vehicle types. Perhaps a bicycle and an SUV is a better combination for some people. 1. I'd say abuut once per year. |
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| ▲ | fundad 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's great that there is choice in the market isn't it? | | |
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| ▲ | 2III7 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| - thermal throttling under sustained heavy load, though apparently there is the possibility to add thermal pads to get rid of throttling, probably at the expense of comfort - no Linux support Otherwise I agree, it is a wonderful machine. I'd replace my crappy thinkpad if I could. My 2014 Air is still going strong for light web browsing and terminal use. |
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| ▲ | mholm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > thermal throttling under sustained heavy load This gets mentioned a lot, but I do quite a bit of dev work on my M4 MBA and have never even felt it get warm. Sustained heavy loads are extremely rare with how quick this thing is. | | |
| ▲ | std_move 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And the fact that there is no annoying fan noise ever is just priceless. With the way most consumer laptops have their fan curves set, you open a new web page and get an annoying ramp up. It is not just a hardware thing, but mostly a self inflicted wound of having a fan curve that is way too aggressive. | | |
| ▲ | varispeed 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If it's not aggressive then quickly laptop will be too hot to touch. For instance, I did tune the fan on my friend's laptop so that it wouldn't be waking up everyone for light browsing, but then it was getting uncomfortably hot. None of such issues on Macs. |
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| ▲ | hnra 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How long are your compile times? | | |
| ▲ | mholm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Fairly short, I'm a Go developer generally working with terraform and microservices. I'd expect some throttling if you're doing 3+ minute compiles, I think. But I think the problem is overblown by the tech video reviewer population that regularly does extremely intensive workloads. | |
| ▲ | matthewkayin 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I wouldn't call my personal project "heavy load", but I have a cross-platform C++ project that I am developing on both a Windows gaming PC and a 2020 M1 macbook air. I use clang to compile on both machines. The M1 mac has noticeably faster compile times. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | fundad 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are the think pads at $1000 crappy? | |
| ▲ | lurking_swe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > for the general consumer linux does not apply here. General consumer doesn’t even know what linux is. |
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| ▲ | cromka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > very good speakers All of the above is true but this, actually, is not entirely: they use a lot of DSP. If you try the same speakers with regular Fedora Asahi with no DSP profile (i.e. vanilla sound), they're very mediocre and do not handle bass well. So, like with many aspects of Apple hardware, this is an example of their software/firmware complimenting the hardware. |
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| ▲ | duskwuff an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's part DSP, part thermal modeling. The speakers can be driven pretty hard, but will overheat and fail if too much energy is put into them in too short a time. macOS has a thermal model to keep the speakers within safe limits; a major component of Asahi's DSP profile is a similar model. (Without that model in place, Asahi reduces the peak power level to avoid damage.) |
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| ▲ | Buttons840 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Plus a touch pad that uses all available space and allows clicks on any part of the touchpad surface. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | winrid an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How do you know there's no PWM flicker? Even my M3 Pro with its supposed 10khz backlight burns my eyes, I had to get rid of it. Is this display not oled? |
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| ▲ | ant6n 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have an M4 air. It’s a nice machine, but I do miss the non-reflective screen of my earlier Asus zenbook (similar size, weight, fanless, decent ergonomics, matte screen, but bog slow). It seems the M5 air still has non non-reflective screen option, which is very unfortunate. |
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| ▲ | netsec_burn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I prefer the Dell Rugged line or Thinkpads, since a single water droplet on the keyboard is enough to kill this laptop. |
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| ▲ | kristjansson 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | ??? I do dishes with an MBP next to the sink. I wouldn't put it under the faucet, but it's ~fine so far. | | |
| ▲ | skullone 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I wouldn't if I were you. Indeed there's a membrane that can keep drops away from electronics, but one big drop will find a way eventually. Doesn't even have to be a spill. Macs are infinitely fragile actually, there is zero effort spent on moisture or even dust intrusion. |
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| ▲ | apparent 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Did this happen to you? I was under the impression that a tiny spill was no longer fatal for Mac laptop keyboards. I've seen it happen a few times and be fine, but maybe the people I knew were just lucky? | |
| ▲ | hyperhello 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The new Apple keyboard seems to fix itself. Once my command key had fallen down. It actually fixed itself somehow. I think it’s got whatever miracle metal snaps back into shape in there. And my kid has been using my old laptop and leaving crumbs; when a crumb gets under the key you feel it, but just press it in and destroy the crumb and the key is fine. I remember the old keyboard because I got so sick of it I snapped the laptop in half in a rare fit of disgust (I was under a lot of stress at the time). Overall, Apple blew it out of the park, and I happily forgive the earlier problems. Now I hope that Tahoe is just some kind of planned demolition phase before they introduce a totally new unsurpassable stable OS. | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The last 3 dells at work, all high end precision/pro max machines, have lasted 9 months before failing completely. No thanks. | |
| ▲ | zelda420 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I hate thinkpads. I was a traveling consultant for nearly a decade. I had three thinkpads and two completely broke within 2 years. The third was ok but when replaced with a MacBook pro I became an apple convert. |
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| ▲ | formvoltron 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Apple makes great hardware. I kind of knew this when I was 12 and I had an Apple IIc. I'm 52 now. |
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| ▲ | raffraffraff 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Even though I'm done with apple, every time I use a non-apple laptop I think "this is a shit trackpad". |