| ▲ | mikkupikku 11 hours ago |
| Probably the most direct way to kick out the people they're actually worried about without invoking legal process for each one specifically, not least because if they did it on a case by case basis there would likely be an undeniable ethnic/national signal that right now is getting hidden in the noise. In other words, instead of targetting researchers for being Chinese nationals, and then subsequently having to defend ethnic discrimination in court, they're just going to throw the baby out with the bath water. That's my guess anyway. |
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| ▲ | this-is-why 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It’s the trump admin. They don’t care about the decorum you’ve described. They would have no qualms about looking racist. Have you not seen what ICE has been doing? Racism is a badge of honor, and so is flipping off the courts and public opinion. No I believe this is simply paranoia and racism driven by Miller and his cronies. |
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| ▲ | titanomachy 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not about "looking racist"; or at least, it's not about public opinion. A racially targeted measure would violate specific laws and would be challenged in court, likely successfully. | | |
| ▲ | rolandog 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It could also be a signal that they intend to take on the world; so they could technically not be racist if "everyone else is a threat". | |
| ▲ | sigwinch 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The Kavanaugh rule specifically permits it. If you’re taking odds that this Supreme Court will challenge the Kavanaugh rule, I’ll wager 1:1 against. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That was so years ago, this is the point we're at now. SCOTUS: Nothing Trump does is illegal. Trump: "does illegal things" Courts: You can't do this, it is illegal. Trump: "ignores courts" Courts: "shocked pikachu face" | |
| ▲ | watwut 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not sure if you noticed, lower courts ruled against administration many times ... they were ignored. And as a bonus upreme court practically ruled president can be lawless as he pleases. |
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| ▲ | ReptileMan 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There have been cases of British, Bulgarian, Canadian, German and Irish nationals also gotten in their claws. Seems pretty race agnostic to me. | | |
| ▲ | agrounds 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is a naive take. Are there specific instances involving individuals of many nationalities/ethnicities? Yes. Is ICE then ignoring race during its operations? Absolutely not. ICE agents are arresting people based solely on their physical appearance and accents. It is band faced racism. | | |
| ▲ | ReptileMan 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If it was racism there would be extremely high false positive ratios. Is it observed? | | |
| ▲ | mrguyorama 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you fucking kidding me? Pay attention. ICE came into Maine with almost 2000 "targets". They arrested about 200 people. They ended up bragging about 17 "bad guys", and even that list is possibly filled with lies. Some of the 200 arrested that weren't actually immigrants include a brown man who passed a background check and flew to Texas recently to fulfill immigration requirements to work for our local Law Enforcement. It includes tons of people who are legal residents and had papers on their person to that effect. Those papers are often left behind when the person gets kidnapped, which includes an unmarked van filled with ICE nuts screeching in front of someone's SUV in city traffic, jumping out, breaking the window to the SUV, dragging the man out, and speeding off, leaving a still running SUV sitting in the middle of the street, with papers. A literal kidnapping scene from a movie, but sure, totally normal and upstanding law enforcement activity. Our own cops, not exactly liberals, are finding it hard not to publicly call them stupid assholes. These cops are mostly Trump voters. Don't stick your head in the sand and cry when people point out how uninformed you are. Their entire operation is almost entirely false positives. They've sent people who live here legally to other countries without authority. |
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| ▲ | somenameforme 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It would be rather nonsensical to completely ignore ethnicity in your operations when the wide majority of illegal immigrants are going to be of that ethnicity. Obviously that would not justify widespread harassment of that group, but nothing like that seems to be happening. Mostly people seem to be trying to stop them from deporting people genuinely in the country illegally, which is divisive - independent of partisanship. If the DNC has chosen this hill to die on, I don't think they're going to do anywhere as near good as they should do in November given Trump is engaging in some extremely unpopular and foolish behavior that people, again going beyond partisan lines, could easily rally together against. | | |
| ▲ | watwut 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Obviously that would not justify widespread harassment of that group, but nothing like that seems to be happening. Exactly that is happening in places ICE focuses on. Kawanaugh stops with, like, beating or multi day/week/months imprisonment are a thing. With legal immigrants, strategy seems to be to hold them in as bad conditions as possible until they sign off own deportation. | | |
| ▲ | somenameforme 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I completely agree they're a thing, but at what scale? The current administration has deported something like 600,000 illegal immigrants. What do you think their accuracy rate is carrying out those deportations? An accuracy rate of 50% would mean there'd be 600,000 errors. An accuracy rate of 70% would mean we'd expect to see around 250,000 errors. An accuracy rate of 90% would mean we'd expect to see around 67,000 errors. A quick search [1] on this topic showed 50 people have been wrongfully detained. Even if we increase that figure substantially, it implies an extremely high success rate, which isn't really possible if you're just engaging in widespread fishing expeditions. [1] - https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... | | |
| ▲ | malshe 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Stopped ≠ detained. The government doesn't release stats on who was stopped. Kavanaugh stops are literally about using race as a criterion for the stop. No other probable cause is required. | |
| ▲ | watwut 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Biden deported more people then any previous president and did not needed any of that. Fun fact, he even focused on criminals, proving that in fact, it is possible to not be dumb about it. Meanwhile, what do we have here is complete breakdown of legal process, judicial orders being ignored and agency that repeatedly provably lies about everything. Including about multiple murders. All the accuracies rates you listed are absolutely terrible for anything that wants to pretend rule if law matters. ---------- The article YOU listed shows: nearly 20 children, including two with cancer. 50 Americans detained for being latino and no other reasons. From 130 Americans detained for protesting, 50 had charges dropped or rejected by court. That is so far. These were simply abusive detentions. These are horrible statistics. In a democratic rule of law country, a few journalists wont be able such frequent and routine abuse of power. |
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| ▲ | edgyquant 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | ryan_n 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What do you mean it’s not representative of reality? Or are you just saying you don’t agree with it? | |
| ▲ | ap99 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | whizzter 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Researchers from "low risk countries" will be thrown out later this year. |
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| ▲ | foolserrandboy 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Are ethnic Chinese from Taiwan still allowed? If so it's probably just about the US' geopolitical rivals not being allowed perceived competitive advantages. |
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| ▲ | ibejoeb 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't find any materials on ethnic prohibitions. There are a lot of problems with that. Among them, it would either fail to achieve the goal. For example, let's say there was a Turk born and raised in PRC and totally aligned with the CCP: prohibiting Han from working in labs doesn't work. |
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| ▲ | ajross 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > kick out the people they're actually worried about without invoking legal process for each one specifically Why are we assuming either/both good faith and competence here? Is there anything about the policymaking of this administration that lends credence to that hypothesis? Are there pre-existing policy proposals you're imagining that have weighed pros and cons about this? Existing abuses you're imagining that this curtails? No, let's be real here: this is yet another impulsive idea that some crank sold the president/cabinet on. |
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| ▲ | mikkupikku 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Why are we assuming either/both good faith and competence here There is obviously a breakdown in either communication or understanding here. I have assumed neither good faith nor competence. On the contrary, the strategy I supposed above would be in bad faith and a symptom of incompetence. Deporting researchers from every country to make it look like they aren't ethnically targetting people is in bad faith, and resorting to such measures instead of simply identifying and deporting the problematic individuals demonstrates their incompetence. |
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| ▲ | TacticalCoder 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The problem with China anyway is that during the many decades when China was badly lagging, they already stole every secret they could. But now China has a very serious education system, motivated and intelligent people, lots of universities and researchers and China isn't lagging behind anymore. So even if the goal was to prevent chinese from spying on US companies, it's too little, decades too late, because China is now at the very top too. |
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| ▲ | pyuser583 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I’m not seeing any ambitious people trying to get into Chinese undergrad universities. I know a handful of folks who worked at them, and then found a more permanent position in the US. | | |
| ▲ | kelipso 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Comes in stages. Used to be ambitious Chinese people wouldn’t go to Chinese universities for grad school (undergrad Chinese university to overseas grad school was a usual route). Now they definitely do. Next there might be foreign grad students in Chinese universities, then foreign undergrad students. Though you would have to learn Chinese I imagine, so that barrier is there. | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Virtually nobody who isn't ethnically Chinese will be able to become a naturalized Chinese citizen, no matter how sincerely they dedicate their life to productively fitting into Chinese society. On paper it's legally possible, but in practice it just doesn't happen. There is also the matter of global comprehension of the English language vs Chinese. I think these factors together severely limits the number of foreigners trying to get into Chinese universities. | |
| ▲ | RobotToaster 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I’m not seeing any ambitious people trying to get into Chinese undergrad universities. If you mean internationally, there are some, mostly from Africa. | | |
| ▲ | 999900000999 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | This has been happening for decades. China spends a lot of money on international Chinese education. According to some , the top schools are now Chinese. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/06/18/... Honestly the best thing about America, historically has been diversity. Mei can come here and become American within a few years. That’s only possible in America( and probably Canada too). But now we don’t want international students. The world’s smartest will go elsewhere. |
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| ▲ | mc32 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In geopolitics you are forced to make deals with the devil. We armed and supplied the USSR to defeat Germany in WWII. In the 90s we gave an out of work China a wold franchise so we could make a few extra bucks with cheap labor and one billion consumers. Our blu collar workers would put down their dangerous and heavy machinery on the dank shop floor so they could take snazzy white collar jobs that were healthier and paid better because they use their American education to skill up their brains. People were sold on that and many bought it. And now here we are living in the aftermath of us propping up systems incongruous to our own and living it down. It comes down to jockeying politicians like J Kerry and company who pretend they work for the people but in all honesty only work for themselves (remember Kerry never threw out his own war medals but rather reproductions he bought in the PX). Jane Fonda, her vanity sunk the nuclear energy industry for fifty years. | | |
| ▲ | notaharvardmba 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nixon (R) was the one to open China, fool. Your swift boating doesn’t work here. | | |
| ▲ | mc32 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nixon was also wrong. The people who pushed this design over the finish line were the likes of GHW and Clinton, to the protest of the likes of Bernie back then. |
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| ▲ | danny_codes 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Stephen Miller is a racist xenophobe. If you aren’t a white “westerner” (or the “help”) he wants you out. And shockingly currently has the power to do so, since we’re run by the incel administration |