| ▲ | goranmoomin 4 hours ago | |||||||||||||||||||
I can't believe everyone is talking about MCP vs CLI and which is superior; both are a method of tool calling, it does not matter which format the LLM uses for tool calling as long as it provides the same capabilities. CLIs might be marginably better (LLMs might have been trained on common CLIs), but MCPs have their uses (complex auth, connecting users to data sources) and in my experience if you're using any of the frontier models, it doesn't really matter which tool calling format you're using; a bespoke format also works. The difference that should be talked about, should be how skills allow much more efficient context management. Skills are frequently connected to CLI usage, but I don't see any reason why. For example, Amp allows skills to attach MCP servers to them – the MCP server is automatically launched when the Agent loads that skill[0]. I belive that both for MCP servers and CLIs, having them in skills is the way for efficent context, and hoping that other agents also adopt this same feature. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | goodmythical 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
>as long as it provides the same capabilities. That's fine if you definition of capabilities is wide enough to include model understanding of the provided tool and token waste in the model trying to understand the tool and token waste in the model doing things ass backwards and inflating the context because it can't see the vastly shorter path to the solution provided by the tool and... There is plenty of evidence to suggest that performance, success rates, and efficiency, are all impacted quite drastically by the particular combination of tool and model. This is evidenced by the end of your paragraph in which you admit that you are focused only on a couple (or perhaps a few) models. But even then, throw them a tool they don't understand that has the same capabilities as a tool they do understand and you're going to burn a bunch of tokens watching it try to figure the tool out. Tooling absolutely matters. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | kaydub 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
Yeah, I've gotta use skills more. I didn't quite get it until this last week when I used a skill that I made. I didn't know the skill got pulled into context ONLY for the single command being ran with the skill, I thought the skill got pulled into context and stayed there once it was called. That does seem very powerful now that I've had some time to think about it. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | ejholmes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
> both are a method of tool calling, it does not matter which format the LLM uses for tool calling as long as it provides the same capabilities. MCP tool calls aren't composable. Not the same capabilities. Big difference. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | jeremyjh 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
No, it really matters because of the impact it has on context tokens. Reading on GH issue with MCP burns 54k tokens just to load the spec. If you use several MCPs it adds up really fast. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | sophiabits 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
> the MCP server is automatically launched when the Agent loads that skill The main problem with this approach at the moment is it busts your prompt cache, because LLMs expect all tool definitions to be defined at the beginning of the context window. Input tokens are the main driver of inference costs and a lot of use cases aren't economical without prompt caching. Hopefully in future LLMs are trained so you can add tool definitions anywhere in the context window. Lots of use cases benefit from this, e.g. in ecommerce there's really no point providing a "clear cart" tool to the LLM upfront, it'd be nice if you could dynamically provide it after item(s) are first added. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | vojtapol 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
MCP needs to be supported during the training and trained into the LLM whereas using CLI is very common in the training set already. Since MCP does not really provide any significant benefits I think good CLI tools and its use by LLMs should be the way forward. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | avaer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | |||||||||||||||||||
MCP vs CLI is the modern version of people discussing the merits of curly braces vs significant whitespace. That is, I don't think we're gonna be arguing about it for very long. | ||||||||||||||||||||