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| ▲ | ccppurcell 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not only is it unjustified, attacking during a negotiation seriously undermines future negotiations. This is a massive self face punching exercise. | | |
| ▲ | moogly 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Israel has even killed a Hamas negotiator in 2024 during deliberations, and attempted to kill another one in 2025. | | |
| ▲ | fennecbutt 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mean they literally shot a child and watched him bleed to death while creating a wall to prevent an ambulance getting to him soooo. But for some reason the Western world only sees the evil things Hamas does and handwaves IDF. They're both evil. Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpqwv9vvzx9o Though I suppose you could say he's lying, it's staged etc. In the same way that the religious attribute every good thing to their god and every bad thing to their devil. |
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| ▲ | coffeebeqn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Was there really a negotiation? It seems like US is giving them an ultimatum, stop nuclear enrichment and ballistic missile production or well hit you | | | |
| ▲ | yard2010 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Don't fool yourself and others, attacking during negotiation is part of the negotiation. |
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| ▲ | Matl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Netanjahu is old and wants to secure his 'legacy' by being credited for dismantling Iran, knowing Trump will back him both because he's been fed BS and because the Israelis have enough kompromat to sink him. There's no 'rational' justification for this attack, only madness and huge egos. | | |
| ▲ | sensanaty an hour ago | parent [-] | | What kompromat would even affect Trump at this point? He's been proven to be deep in bed with a literal pedophilic cabal of elites, what on Earth else could they have on this guy that would affect anything? | | |
| ▲ | Matl 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | A literal video of him doing what most of us think he likely did with this pedophilic cabal of elites could likely still do some damage. Or perhaps there's still worse things we cannot imagine? With these people, one can never be too sure. |
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| ▲ | halflife 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you're talking about Israel, why choose to move there then? Few Israelis have long-running roots in the country, it's mostly recent immigrants or their children. This feels a lot like the people building a home next to an airport and then complaining about the noise. Besides, are you sure "your house" wasn't stolen from someone? That's hardly uncommon in Israel. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Israel is 80 years old, I was born here and I’m 25 years old. The funny thing is my parents immigrated from Russia so you probably won’t want me there either (me too). Your argument is bad. | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I feel like you're just repeating my point here rather than criticizing my argument in any way. Why should anyone be opposed to you living in Russia? | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Because I’d have been used as a cannon fodder in the war in Ukraine.
And then you’d criticize me for being a Russian soldier. Anyway your argument is bad in multiple layers, I don’t have any other passport and I live in a home that is younger than 80 years as most Israelis do | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I don’t have any other passport You don't need one, it is very easy to emigrate to many western countries as an Israeli passport holder. There's also a chance you qualify for one of the EU citizenship schemes for jewish descendants. You don't have to choose to live in an apartheid state. At least if you only held a Russian passport you could plausibly claim that it's somewhat difficult to move anywhere nice. > I live in a home that is younger than 80 years as most Israelis do I guess that makes it better. Truly, a shining example of Israeli moral superiority. I can easily find ownership records going back more than 500 years for the land I live on. Odds are it'd be trivial to go even further. What about the land you live on? Who owned it 100 years ago and how'd it end up in your possession? How do you think those records would tend to look in Israel? What kind of stories do you think they would tell? Would it be a good look for Israeli people? | | |
| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | My grand grandparent had a factory and a mansion in Poland , which was stolen by the nazis. My family moved with 0 assets to Israel to rebuild themselves. Will you please pay me the sum lost with dividends so I can return to Poland? | |
| ▲ | null_deref 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The entire continent of North America changed hands in the last 250 years many European lands changed hands in the last 150 years, some Israeli lands changed hands in the last 80 years, why should only we open our records? | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The Palestinian people exist and have very real and justified grievances. There's hardly anything comparable in Europe. | | |
| ▲ | fweimer 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The Romani people. Perhaps even Jews, depending on attitudes towards Israel. Probably other groups who are even less visible, so we don't know about the challenges they face. The 19th century push for nation states has marginalized and tried to erase many groups. | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think it's pretty telling how Europeans treat those people now, and how Israeli people treat Palestinians today. Some of us learned to be better. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | wake me up when Spain has let their minorities a path for self determination and when you do something about the savages that loot and destroy everything in your previous held colonies like Wagner and the Russian African Corpus |
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| ▲ | null_deref 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ok, I’m for building them a better future, we’re on agreement in that | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Do you disagree that there's a good chance that by choosing to live and pay taxes in Israel you're going to have a net negative effect on the future of the Palestinians over your lifetime? |
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| ▲ | null_deref 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh Drop down from your high horse, let’s ask you what have you done for example for the environment have you quit your job to join a cause to for the environment? Have you stopped buying things from china? Have you completely stopped consuming fast fashion? I won’t leave my friends and family and rather fight for the values of this country from here | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >Oh Drop down from your high horse, let’s ask you what have you done for example for the environment have you quit your job to join a cause to for the environment? Have you stopped buying things from china? Have you completely stopped consuming fast fashion? I hope this particularly weak whataboutism helps you feel better about your indefensible moral position. > fight for the values of this country from here Apartheid being one of the core values worth fighting for, apparently. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Haha you literally asking me to leave my roots and friends and family and I have a weak arguments? Your arguments detached from reality. I cut my salary to be involved politically, I believe in a future of peace. You can rest assured I engage in what’s right far more than you | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I believe in a future of peace What does that look like to you? I'm sure Hamas would say the same, it's just about how that peace is reached and how it looks like in the end. The typical Israeli vision of peace isn't any better than the typical Palestinian vision of peace. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I’m not a politician nor all the information is available to me on what can be done and what not My moral compass says the following -
1. First of all securing our own democracy from all the internal authoritarian movements
2. Creating a situation were any Palestinian can live respectfully, feed their family and get education From there state decision should be far more easier. | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > 1. First of all securing our own democracy from all the internal authoritarian movements perfectly reasonable ask. 3 years ago, I would have been perfectly fine if they demonstrated interest in that. Instead we have people like Ben gvir openly spout ethnosupremacist vitriol that would make hitler blush. Now my instagram is full of that man touring prisons where he brags about executing people who clearly show signs of torture. (and this is what they are COMFORTABLE SHOWING) between that and his approval ratings (60% of israelis want to relocate Palestinians somewhere else Its clear that the whole society is rotten from the top down. frankly, I just want this madness to end. | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > First of all securing our own democracy from all the internal authoritarian movements Is that possible? Especially given the birth rate differences between the genuine religious nutjobs and normal people? |
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| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Peace for Hamas is eradicating all the Jews. Peace for Israelis is coexistence. Look at egypt or Jordan for reference. | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury an hour ago | parent [-] | | So why hasn't Israel just been granting all Palestinians citizenship? It's not really about coexistence, is it? Rather than existing together, it's at best about existing separately. >Peace for Hamas is eradicating all the Jews. Which is a perfectly natural position considering the historic relationship here. | | |
| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent [-] | | Why? First of all, we tried to give citizenship to Palestinians in East Jerusalem, they refuse. Second, are you suggesting to annex Gaza and th West Bank, and giving them citizenship? That means the come election, Hamas would be the biggest party in the Knesset, revoke all democratic rights, and create a sharia state. That will be the end of the only democracy in the Middle East. |
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| ▲ | cultofmetatron 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I won’t leave my friends and family and rather fight for the values of this country from here The nazis justified the holocaust as a "defense of their values" as well. | | |
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| ▲ | tome 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Why should anyone be opposed to you living in Russia? I don't know. Why did the Cossacks oppose Jews living in Russia? |
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| ▲ | notenlish 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Founded 80 years ago on stolen land. | |
| ▲ | mdni007 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your parents "immigrated" from Russia to steal land. You should be blaming your parents. Your argument is bad. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is this what every American tell themselves when they wake up in the morning? Or that what every Arab says to himself outside of Yemen, Saudi and Oman? | | |
| ▲ | mdni007 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes every morning I wake up and think, why are my tax dollars going towards a parasitic entity who has taken complete control over our government to fight it's wars for them when we can barely afford basic necessities at home. | | |
| ▲ | null_deref 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah that Venezuela, Iraq and Afghanistan things are definitive proof all Americans wars are fought because of Israel | |
| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | So Texas should be returned to Mexico, right? | | |
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| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is your answer? Just leave my country? Well if it’s so bad for the Palestinians here why won’t they just leave as well? | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It was their country before you guys showed up with guns and kicked them out. The only reason it still exists is because of a massive propaganda machine designed to misrepresent the whole situation to the American people who's tax dollars are bankrolling it. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ah! We’re going with history. Awesome. This country was Jewish before Islam even existed, according to many, many, many archeological findings. So is your position is to exile all non Jews from Israel? | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron an hour ago | parent [-] | | The majority of you are descendents of european converts cosplaying as middleasterners. That said, I support jews who were there before 1950s and the ones who are actually willing to make peace with palestinans and live alongside without an apartheid ethnostate. They are welcome to live in Israel and I wish them peace. The rest of you who are defending or taking part in this genocide should absolutely be exiled. that answer your question? | | |
| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent [-] | | Amazing answer, all wrong. Jews maintained their tradition and lineage for 2 thousand years. So much so that you can identify European Jewish heritage with a DNA test. Second, half of the Israeli Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabic and Muslim countries. And thank you for having the 1950 cutoff, since my family came to Israel before that. | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >Second, half of the Israeli Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabic and Muslim countries. And they should rightly blame European Jews for inciting this. That this would happen as a response to the actions European Jews were taking in Palestine was completely predictable, but they didn't really care. | | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Second, half of the Israeli Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabic and Muslim countries. And the solution to that was to create an apartheid state where you forced palestinians to live as second class citizens in their ancestral home? Last I checked, there are plenty of jews in morocco and Iran. I've met a few. > And thank you for having the 1950 cutoff, since my family came to Israel before that. Glad that you found a loophole that lets you defend literal genocide while clinging to your land claim as if that was the part I had a major problem with. you certainly got me there. | | |
| ▲ | halflife an hour ago | parent [-] | | You created the cutoff rule, not me. Plenty Moroccan Jews in Morocco - 300,000 in 1950, 2,250 in 2026. Iran - 150,000 in 1950, 15,000 in 2026. If you agree that 90% leaving is not ethnic cleansing, than say the same for Palestinians. | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron an hour ago | parent [-] | | > You created the cutoff rule, not me. Given a choice between saying you don't support the genocide of the palestinian people and being there before the 1950's, you chose the later. you do understand how that makes you look right? like I'm shocked at your lack of self awareness here. You are perfectly welcome to be a racist piece of shit. its your right I guess. but don't turn around and act like you're the victim when everyone hates you. > Plenty Moroccan Jews in Morocco - 300,000 in 1950, 2,250 in 2026. > Iran - 150,000 in 1950, 15,000 in 2026. Its definitely ethnic cleansing and it shouldn't have happened either. I wish we stood up to stop it back then. I didn't say anything about it back then because I wasn't alive back then to speak out against it. I'm alive now and THIS genocide that your people are committing is what I'm speaking out against because Im against genocide. I know there are other genocides going around in the world but this one is being funded with MY tax dollars. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | So here’s the incredible part. Everybody cares about the Palestinians well being, but they dont care about offering reparations for the Jews. I don’t see you calling all Muslim and European countries to return all stolen land and assets to Jews, and promising them full rights. So for Palestinians - we have to fix whats been done. For Jews - its history and we can’t fix it. |
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| ▲ | JasonADrury 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Palestinians literally need to ask you people for permission in order to leave. You can just leave, you have a decent passport and can easily move to Europe where you don't have to worry about Iranian missiles. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | First of all, I literally can’t. I can only get a tourist visa which is valid for 60 days. Second, Israel tried to negotiate with countries to move willing gazans, but most countries refused. And everyone called it ethnic cleansing. |
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| ▲ | hjkl0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You probably never lived in a democracy. | | | |
| ▲ | catlikesshrimp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Like people who live in Iran or did you live in Gaza? Average joes pay the price. Bibi, on the other hand, needs to keep any war going lest he some day goes to trial. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m willing to pay the price to achieve peace. I know I have defense and fortifications (and if your in Europe, you most likely have the same defenses) and can endure. Iran and Gaza have 0 defenses, and yet the chose to start a war. |
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| ▲ | moogly 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This endless self-victimization is so unbecoming. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Having a ballistic missile land on my house - self victimizing. Creating a totally new definition for refugees which can be inheritable - not self victimizing? | | |
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